Sammy's Story

[Bevm]

Re: Sammy's Story

Well on Friday morning we started with a High and here we are Sunday night finishing with a High

Results are 7am 554, 8am High I gave him 2.5 ml insulin with half his meal, 9:30 196 rest of his meal, 12:00 554, Working, 19:30 574 gave him 2.5 insulin with his meal, 21:00 421, 24:00 hrs midnight 342, 2am 148,7am 434, 8am 491 half meal and 2.5 ml insulin, rest of meal a hour later , 10 am 522, 12am 468, 2pm 450, 4pm 558, 6pm 477, 8pm 532, 2ml insulin 10pm 574, midnight High - too high to get a reading , 1am 524.
We started with a High and end with an High !! Not good is it?? Now what do I do?

I will take a copy of the chart in for John, Sammy's Vet tomorrow but he will not be pleased since he wanted me to give Sammy only one 5ml of insulin in the morning but the three days I did that he was that his B/G was so low all the time, Sammy was wobbly on his feet

[Bevm]

Re: Sammy's Story

Mmmm thank you Amy some interesting points, I will slow his meal down and try giving him the whole meal instead two halves, the complete weight of each meal is 200grammes Sammy weighs 12pounds , I can easily give him more food how much do you suggest?

[jesse girl]

Re: Sammy's Story

I think your biggest problem is the sporadic numbers you see in the 100s . i find it a bit unusual as far as sammy just drops out of nowhere and then bounces back up into higher numbers just showing that instability he has

now i would double check the numbers in the 100s and make another test after so your sure those lower numbers are correct

I wonder if the meter your using is working correctly

just a thought

[amydunn19]

I think you could go up a unit, and slow down his eating. I don't think he needs more food, just two meals 12 hours apart. A slow feeder bowl should slow him down.

The vet thinks your dog is rebounding but wanted you to maintain the dosage that was causing the rebound? Odd advice.

Getting him settled in won't be a quick process. The problem is we don't know exactly why he is having the sporadic numbers so we will need to be detectives over the next few days. Be as consistent as possible with food and insulin. Check him frequently(not curve type testing) but a few times a day.

Remember you have taken his dose way down and it is expected to yield some highs.

[Bevm]

Re: Sammy's Story

Thank you Jesse girl I will do that - I do double test and find a fluctuation of a few points after your message I tested the same blood sample 6 times and every time it was slightly different so I will get another tester - which one do you find the most reliable?

[Bevm]

Re: Sammy's Story

Thank you Amy
Sammy was on twice daily insulin of 5ml each time 10ml a day and the recommended dose for Sammy's weight is 3-6ml reduced by 25% to the lowest whole number if given twice a day. When we started in May he weight had dropped to 7 kilos so recommended dose 3.5 - 7 daily and they started him on 7x2 a day!
Our Vet believes it is Somogyi rebound yet cut him to 5mls a day which is the high side of the recommended dose, I did not understand that either !
There are natural dog foods already prepared that your members have recommended shall I gradually change him over onto those and see if it helps?

[amydunn19]

What are you currently feeding? Changing food is like starting over as well but if the insulin and food are not balancing, you might find something that matches up better. I think you might try combining the split meals into one first.

Also, taking him down to a lower dose was designed to break the rebound. I really think that if he eats his entire meal, then receives his insulin, hopefully that dip will smooth out. If you are still seeing the dramatic dip then high numbers after getting him on a 12 hour schedule then perhaps the food is not a good match.

I always used the One Touch Ultra meter and got really good results. I think that you wouldn't be getting lows at the same times every day if the meter is to blame. The one touch does give error messages instead of false readings which I found to be an advantage.

[jesse girl]

Re: Sammy's Story

If your not off by to much even 50 points in a higher range maybe ok

what you don't want to see is a test at a 100 then another back to back test and get 200

i use a discount meter that doesnt have much of a track record with other dogs so i dont want to recommend it but i have used the one touch ultra and has worked well . i do think having an extra meter is helpful as i compared my meter to the one touch ultra recently which is good to do from time to time

i had one meter that read higher by as much as a 150 points so when she read 500 she was at more like 350 still higher but not real high . You just want to be sure your equipment is functioning properly . you can also compare at the vet . i prefer a lab analyzer but all vets dont use that option

jesse went from 500 to 70 and back to 500 in half a day . I stil not sure why
we made an unorthodox decision to only feed her once a day . i figured that with only one meal food would only have an affect for half a day and at least have ok sugar for that half a day . well th funny thing it improved all her numbers and she became more stable . not sure exactly why

as amy said we became a detective trying to solve things that were problematic in her curve for her it was her steep drops by 500 points early after giving her insulin we would try different things if they worked we would continue if not we would move onto something else

With sammy you do have a similar problem the big drop . If its constant every day that makes it easier to deal with to try to slow that drop down with food

something is not right as far as how sammys body deals with injected insulin . there are times his insulin seems like to much other times not enough and not really consistent . now i was there with jesse and we figured what works for her and most find there way and you will for sammy . It is limited what a vet can do because they just dont spend enough time with the pup to figure not to say you dont need the vet but having expectations the vets will solve this may not be logical and you may have to do most of the heavy lifting

i wish it was easier for you i understand how you feel and others here to who have had a difficult pup getting on track but you will get there one step at a time

[Bevm]

Re: Sammy's Story

Hi Amy
I am following your recommendations and giving Sammy is meal slowly in one go with his insulin and will see how that works first before changing his home cooked meals, I am following the basic recipe of a Vet that got excellent results with diabetic dogs, all ingredients are weighed and of first class quality that Sammy enjoyed before being diagnosed. I have adjusted the amount of protein, carbs and veg in accordance with Diabetic requirements.
Your message Jessie girl has just come through - thank you
Sammy slept all night so not taken an early morning, he was in no hurry to go for a wee and so far has not had a drink. he is lively and appears happy. His blood count was 92, so I double checked 74 and then again 56 - the meter appears to be consistent in the UK that is 5.1,4.1,3.1 so only a different of 2 points 36 in USA - this was before being fed I slowly gave him all his meal with 2ml insulin and will keep an eye on him in case he goes hypo

I have made an appointment with a different Vet's practise for a second opinion, it is no good me keep going to a Vet I have lost faith in. I find I have more faith in what you both say because I know you are speaking from experience, and knowledge gained from trial and error with your dogs. John my vet just looks at the curves shakes his head and mutters he admits he does not know what is going on which gives me no support and does not help Sammy and costs me another £40!!

I agree it is down to me working with Sammy and understand it is difficult for any Vet to solve this problem but there is an answer we just need to find what works for Sammy and get some weight on him

Thank you for your support

[Bevm]

Re: Sammy's Story

The new Vet Sian says she would have started with a low quarter to a half dose of insulin and adjusted every 3-5 days until we found what was happening with Sammy's body, especially when he was so stressed and missing Susie. She feels the stress hormones affect on his body producing insulin and it needed a gentle touch to get a clearer picture of what was happening to Sammy. She wants me to gradually reduce him by a quarter of a unit every five days until reduced to one unit twice a day. She believes he is still having too much insulin in his body which is causing Sammy to keep losing weight he has gone down to further to 5.4 Kilos (11.3 pounds).

Sian is also recommending to give Sammy his morning meal before his first injection, second meal at the time of the injection and saving some of his meal for mid afternoon if hungry, which sounds a lot more reasonable and could help with the afternoon lows. Not to take any bloods curves for 5-7 days and to contact them immediately is Sammy has a hypo or unwell

It is good to have a Vet that is agreeing what you have said and recommended, and I am doing . Sian is asking if Sammy has had a EPI to check his Trypsin lite activity and make sure his CPLi is normal ?? I gather it is to do with absorption of proteins etc. John says since Sammy has not had any bowel problems he did not think it was necessary - Any thoughts on this ?

I am so glad you for your help

[jesse girl]

Re: Sammy's Story

my jesse is very sensitive to injected insulin . I cant give her more than 3 units at a time which took me a long time to figure out . When she ends up higher at a fasting i still think her body was not comfortable with the dose for that particular period

I also believe stress and anxiety can lead to higher numbers i have seen that with jesse but with those things it can be difficult to control stress

It seems like your vet wants to work backwards , Backing down the dose as you would raising the dose

I guess your vet does not want you to test in between curves i can understand the reason so not to deter you from the program but i still believe at least testing 2 to 3 times a day during the regulation process is important .I feel more info is better even though it maybe stressful to do

As far as feeding my jesse has a unique routine with her one meal but i did not wake up one day saying this was the way to go . it was a progression of ideas lead by how jesse reacted to insulin and one day it just made sense there are some that thought i was nuts but i new in my heart this could work it made total sense to me

hope the plan works but remember even if it doesnt its information that maybe able to be used in the future . I call jesse my frankenstein diabetic where her routine was a combination of ideas from others and me to create her unique routine that has been working for 6 years and hope it continues but we understand that things can change especially as jesse ages and we will adapt to that change the best we can

good luck with the plan

[Bevm]

Re: Sammy's Story

Thank you Jessie's Girl it helps to hear your experience - I agree about doing checks it is the only way to know what is happening inside his body Sammy had me up at 4am so the first thing I checked was his blood glucose level it was 502. Hopefully on the way down we will find a insulin level that works for him. At least now I understand more its been a sharp learning curve so glad I found you all x

[Bevm]

Re: Sammy's Story

I have tried reducing Sammy's insulin just by a quarter for 3 days and he started drinking much more and being awake in the night plus hungry all the time even ate acorns and conkers which made him sick !! I have gently increased it back to 2 x 2 a day and he is much better in himself, in all ways plus sleeping through the night. I feel we are almost there with getting the right balance, it only takes a slight change and I had made two within a couple of days, giving Sammy his full meal slowly in one go and lowered his insulin dose. I am learning )

[jesse girl]

Re: Sammy's Story

sounds like your getting a good understanding of sammys tendencies and how to approach them

its great your able to correlate physical symptoms and blood glucose meter readings and formulate a direction to go

Its nice when that lightbulb goes off in your head

[Bevm]

Re: Sammy's Story

it certainly is!! it is great that you have this support forum for us to learn to get the confidence from. How did it start? How did you get involved?