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**jesse girl** · 07-24-2018, 06:15 AM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

Hi and welcome

My theory with the panting is maybe there is some discomfort from digestion .It seems to occur a couple hours after eating from what you describe

Just a straight meat diet may struggle with regulation and digestive issues for dogs . Another thing a balanced diet with all the minerals and vitamins are necessary . The problem for diabetics they have a compromised pancreas already so something easily digestible is helpful . Also diabetic dogs usually need some carbs in their diet to work with insulin

As far as testing i dont think its a pain thing but an in my space thing . Possibly a bit scared from the sound of the lancing device and maybe pricking with just the lance may work better . We struggled with the ear for testing and gave up and moved to the lip but that appears to not work for your pup . Maybe warming the ear before to get the blood flow going may help . Maybe raising the heart rate with a bit of exercise could help . I do understand the flow of blood even in the same area can be different from test to test . I see that with jesses lip .

**Raysaint** · 07-24-2018, 05:17 PM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

I agree with jesse girl, a diabetic needs food with some carbs, and low fat, moderate protein and fiber. Carbs are essential to balance the insulin. High protein can be hard on the kidneys.

As for lancing, see if you can get a Softclix Plus, they're made by AccuChek. I am diabetic and they're the best I've used. Not noisy, and about as painless as you can get. I have it set to the highest number, as dogs ears are thicker than my skin. My dog barely flinches when lanced.
Also, with your finger behind the ear where you are going to lance, don't push the vein up, thinking it will lance deeper, just let the skin rest against your finger for support, then lance.
I read this not long ago on the vet database site.
An allergic reaction to the insulin is rare but possible. There are other conditions that cause heavy breathing, but yours seems to follow a pattern. A switch to Humulin might be in the cards.

**Julia** · 07-24-2018, 06:35 PM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

Thanks so much for the replies jesse girl and Raysaint! Actually my sister and I discussed the chicken/meat diet and no carbs or fiber a few days ago too and wondered how long he was to continue on it. The vet had said originally that we should only give meat because his sugar was literally off the charts and he was admittedly very overweight. We don't have a scale but I can tell he's lost a lot of weight in the past 6 weeks. We decided to make an appointment with our vet to discuss these various issues and find out where we go from here. We see her on Friday at 1:00p.m.

I hope you both don't mind me asking a lot of questions. I think our vet is great but I think the ones who live it know more about the practical, every day sorts of things. Our other sister found a collar online (can't think of its name) that has a disk that attaches to the dog's neck and tests the blood sugar every 15 or 30 mins. She said she would send me the link but it certainly would be great to have versus doing blood curves every 5 days, sticking poor Binky multiple times for 12 hrs. As you can probably tell, I really hate blood curve day! Has anyone heard of or used the collar?? I will look out for Softclix Plus as I'm really not impressed with the lancet that comes with the AlphaTrak2 monitor. I'm in Canada and we don't always get the same products as the US. Is Caninsulin a good kind of insulin? I saw somewhere else in the forum a question about insulin and people having to switch from a NPH(?) insulin...I wasn't sure if Caninsulin was in that category. What would be a reason for changing to Humuliin?
Thank so much for your help! This is all so new and confusing to me. Hopefully one day I'll be able to pay it forward. Cheers! Julia

**jesse girl** · 07-24-2018, 10:12 PM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

Well i have probably poked jesses lip over 10,000 times . The funny thing she gives me a lick after . Her vet in the beginning thought i was kind of cruel another said i was going to kill her . It was a difficult time if not for the forum I may have given up . Jesse was difficult to regulate and to get well , That was over 8 years ago

I took the path least traveled with jesse no medical background or understanding and i proceeded to educate myself as you can see the vets wernt much help. They did save her but keeping her here i was not very confident so for me and jesse we went it alone . Very scary but i felt we had nothing to loose because she was on the decline . I always had the forum for support

You have to find what path you need to follow and it will probably be very different from my path with jesse . It is so dog individualistic what can work for one may not for another . Many dogs do well on your dogs insulin and many do well on NPH and maybe one other . There are not many choices on that

The key is a balanced diet lower fat . Start at a conservative starting dose and do a curve once a week and adjust if needed . Usually a flat high pattern needs a dose adjustment up . Big swing in sugar can point to a dose to much or an imbalance . Getting to regulation takes some patience but most get there . Now regulation can be different for that individual dog . Most times it may not be textbook and it will most likely never look like normal but the good thing dogs can do just fine with that and have mostly normal lives with maybe some limitations .

**Raysaint** · 07-25-2018, 05:54 AM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated ��

I'm in Canada also, and the lancet I suggested comes with AccuChek, made by Roche in Quebec. Give them a call and ask about getting their lancet.
https://www.accu-chek.ca/en

Your Caninsulin is like the Vetsulin in the U.S. It's a combo of regular and intermediate acting insulin. It works for some but not all. Sometimes Humulin NPH needs to be used. But the reverse can also happen. Once you get more into the regimen and do some curves, you'll make tweaks and continue on. If it seems difficult to get close to regulation, that's when people may choose to switch insulin, but then you kinda have to start again, but whatever time it takes, you have to get there for the dog's sake.

**Julia** · 07-26-2018, 03:43 PM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

Thanks again both of you. Your suggestions and the information you have given me is so helpful. I definitely see the necessity of working with his diet and will speak to the vet about it tomorrow as well as the insulin. Now knowing that Caninsulin is the same as Vetsulin, I can read all those posts and articles about it and apply them to us.

When we started doing curves his early morning he would be in the high 30's and get down in the 20's at his low point. This last curve, before insulin and breakfast, he was 30.1 then dropped to 28 then 14.4 then 10.3 then curved up to 19.6. We were concerned about him going for 30 to 10 because the 30 is high but should we increase the insulin to bring it down, would not that 10 drop a lot too? I know the 10 can be lowered a bit, but I'm concerned about it going too low. I know finding a balance can take some time.

From my reading on the forum, I learnt to my astonishment, that many people get the blood from their pet's upper lip. I have tried to open his mouth to check his teeth and he is not a willing participant at aĺl. I guess I should start playing with his mouth so he might become comfortable with me pulling on his lip etc. He has a paper thin ear...even thinner than a cat's. Perhaps that's why it's so sensitive when I prick him and it's hard to get results unless I practically go all the way through it. For the most part I have done it freestyle w/o the lancet. The lancet is very hit and miss for me. He doesn't react to the sound of it but he snaps at me at the moment I do either method then starts kissing me like crazy in apology for the snaps. That makes me feel worse; I should be one apologizing for hurting him and I'm 99.9% sure he reacts from pain not surprise. I've seen that some ppl shave the back area just up from the tail and get the blood there. That may be a better option for us. Any hints on how to do it? I've seen the lancet must be on the highest setting but where do you aim for? I'm thinking changing area throughout the blood curve might be good, he'll never know what's coming next LOL.

I've seen a few posts about the monitors and testing strips and from what I've read, the AlphaTrak2 is a good one but the testing strips are the most expensive?? I have to admit, I was surprised how expensive everything is especially as we were going through endless strips on the first few curves as we would stick one in but not get enough blood or something would happen, now I only stick the strip in when I'm sure everything is right. Are there other reliable systems that are less expensive? On eBay 50 strips turn out to be over $100 CDN and I ended up buying a whole new AT2 system with monitor, 75 strips, 130 lancets for roughly $115 Cdn; it was cheaper to buy the whole kit rather than just the strips. Crazy! By next summer I should have at least 10 monitors lol.I think the collar might turn out to be the cheapest and easiest of the lot.

I had another question but I can't think of it right now plus I've monopolized your time long enough. Thanks again ladies for all you do; I am most grateful for this group and the lovely people in it. Cheers! Julia

**Raysaint** · 07-27-2018, 05:42 AM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated ��

Increasing dose may bring the 10 lower and start to get dangerous. That's one of the offshoots of an insulin like that, because it has the Regular insulin in it which works fast. And then what's left may run out and thus give you the high fasting readings of 30.
Humulin NPH might end up being a better insulin, however, let's see how your diets changes go. More low glycemic carbs may help with slowing the big drop from 30 to 10.

I tried lancing at the base of the tail, it worked sometimes. I shaved an area on either side of the base of the tail, and use a thicker lancet. Thicker lancets might not fit your lancing device, but they are available and some do fit certain lancing devices. Or you can just freehand poke with the lancet.

As for the Alpha strips, when I first got my meter my vet's price for strips was $125 for a box of 50. I told them no way I was paying that, I'll look elsewhere. They lowered my price to $80 a box. They want the business, but realized I wasn't going to go along with whatever price they set. Try it with your vet, $80 for them is better than zero, they might go for it.

I'd trust the Alpha more for curves, than this collar you mention. Is it like a human constant glucose monitoring device, which needs an implant under the skin?

**Julia** · 07-28-2018, 12:38 PM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

Hi ladies!

We saw the vet yesterday and she was thrilled by our progress. Binky has gone from 17.5 lbs to 13 lbs and we are wondering if he really is a Chi mix or a large full Chi. At any rate, he was very overweight and looks much better. She has added kibble to his diet so he will be eating a mix of half kibble, half chicken or beef. Let's see if that helps the panting. I know it will help him feel more full at least. We asked if he could have a diabetic treat in between meals and she said NO. He was on 6 units of insulin in the morning and 5 at night. She changed it to 6 and 6 so hopefully the slight change at night would bring his first test in the morning down but not effect the midday reading...that made sense to me but let's see how it goes. We have a big bottle of honey and aren't afraid to use it.

She said once again that she doesn't think he's just diabetic; she has thought since the start he probably has Cushings and possible liver issues. She did more testing and we'll have the results on Tues. He desperately needs dental work including a couple of teeth pulled. A fill in Vet told us about a year ago that we should wait for his dental, clearly wrong advice. She wants to get him stable before she does his teeth but feels his teeth could be effecting his test results. She vetoed the Freestyle Libre collar as it is pricking and covering the hole for a long time which she thinks could be bad in case it got infected. She advised us to go to 30 gauge lancets and gave us some tips for the pricking so hopefully that will improve. She also gave us a bag with 200 free syringes that someone had donated to the clinic. I really think she isn't trying to gouge us in any way..she has told us to look online for insulin and strips for better prices than the clinic has but in truth, I've looked around and the clinic is only slightly higher than buying online.

Raysaint, the device I mentioned is called the Freestyle Libre collar and if you add dogs when you search for it on Google, they will show videos of how it works on dogs and there is a guy who has videos of his hacks and he seems to be able to extend the life of the device. It seems interesting especially if you are doing curves every 5 days but as I said, our vet vetoed it for Binky.

Thanks again for all you do!
Julia

**Raysaint** · 07-28-2018, 06:28 PM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

kibble is usually grain based and can have a lot of carbs. I would suspect it may raise his sugar levels, or at least change them from what you are seeing now. But if it's low fat and stops the panting, then you'll just keep tweaking the dose until you see steady improvements in readings.

Maybe because it's early, she said no treats. However, there are treats that have no carb value at all and usually doesn't affect blood sugar. Freeze dried liver or chicken breast are examples.

**Julia** · 08-04-2018, 12:02 PM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

Hi Gals,

I thought I would report back and ask a couple more questions if you don't mind. As I said in my last post, we saw the Vet and she was extremely happy with our progress. He previously was on 6 IU's in the morning and 5 IU's at night so she just increased the night one so he would be at 6 and 6 at both injection times. The hope is the extra unit at night will carry through to lower that first high morning reading but not change the others in the daytime that are okay. We need to do a curve tomorrow or Monday so we will see if there have been good results from the small change. The kibble she chose for him is Royal Canin Diabetic kibble and he seems to like it which is a huge plus as he wasn't a big kibble eater previously. I think he's probably so hungry that he would eat rocks if I put some chicken or beef on top of them. He gets half and half....1/2 kibble and 1/2 chicken or beef. Whenever I see boneless chicken on sale I buy multiple packs, divide them up and freeze them for future use. I'm happy that he is a smallish dog as the kibble is almost $50 for a 8lb bag! A big dog would finish it off in 3 days flat I bet but thankfully it will last us awhile.

The Vet called to say she had the results of the blood tests she did and while one of the liver enzymes had decreased, the other more important one had increased. She asked permission to do a couple more tests and depending on those results, she might do an ultrasound. She says she likes to test bit by bit in case the issue is found quite easily, and that way, keep expenses down but I think we are probably going to get the full package. Of course, Cushings is a strong possibility but there could be other problems as well.

With all these blood curves, we went through the test strips very quickly. I learnt not to stick the strip in until you had an adequate blood sample. Anyway, I searched around and read many people found good deals on eBay so I went and had a look. Between the base price plus shipping, most seemed to be around the same price but then I saw a deal of getting the entire kit including: meter, 130 lancets and a lancet device, and 75 test strips! It was just slightly higher than the other offers and I didn't really need a new meter but the 75 strips alone were cheaper than if I bought a vial of 50 and another of 25 with another vendor so I went ahead and purchased the whole kit. Finally it arrived in the mail yesterday and I went from estatic to angry/ upset in 30 seconds flat when I realized all the test strips had expired!! I was especially upset as the test strips were the only part of the kit I needed; I already had purchased a full kit from my Vet. Needless to say, I wrote a scathing email to the seller not knowing a copy also went to eBay...I was trying to decide if I should report them. Anyway, almost immediately I received an apology from the seller saying they had no idea the test strips expired and they hadn't intentionally sent it to me like that and would refund all my money, which they did. I got emails from PayPal a few mins later saying x amount had been deposited in my account.

During this, I googled to see if they really expired on the exact date and there were a lot of contrary comments. Some ppl said absolutely never use expired strips, others said to test them with the solution that comes in the box, some meters won't use expired strips and others said the strips are good for 6 months after you open the vial. It doesn't matter the expiration date, you must do it based on those 6 months. Any opinions?? I'd hate for them to be off especially during these important curves but I read the results from any strip can be off by 20%. Have either of you had experience with expired strips? Is eBay totally unreliable? Also, my Vet said the code for dogs is 20 on the AlphaTrak2 but I looked on the test strips they sent me and it has 2 totally different numbers. But then I looked at the vial the vet sent me and there were 2 numbers but neither of them were 20 either. Does that matter?? I wondered because I bought the first AlphaTrak2 in Canada, that meter and strips might have its own codes and levels and the one I bought on eBay might be completely different because it's American with its own codes etc. Would have the American test strips, if they weren't expired, even have worked with my Canadian meter? Is it universal or does every country have their own meters and strips that can't be exchanged??

As always, thanks for any info, suggestions or advice you could impart is greatly appreciated!
Julia

**Susan M** · 08-05-2018, 12:08 AM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

I have been following and reading posts here for a few months and have gotten some very valuable info. Im am little confused on posting but here goes....
Max is a 4 and a half yr old terrier mix. He was diagnosed around the first of March of this year. He is getting 5 units twice a day of Novolin N. He is always eager to eat, I have been feeding him Natures recipe grain free for small breeds. His bg has been on the low side and he's been going to the vet for the all day curve test about once a month. I have been thinking about getting a bg meter and doing the curve test myself. Any advice on what kind of meter I should purchase? Will I be able to get the same kind of accuracy as the vets office?
Thanks

**MikeMurphy** · 08-05-2018, 05:29 AM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

Originally posted by Susan M View Post

I have been following and reading posts here for a few months and have gotten some very valuable info. Im am little confused on posting but here goes....
Max is a 4 and a half yr old terrier mix. He was diagnosed around the first of March of this year. He is getting 5 units twice a day of Novolin N. He is always eager to eat, I have been feeding him Natures recipe grain free for small breeds. His bg has been on the low side and he's been going to the vet for the all day curve test about once a month. I have been thinking about getting a bg meter and doing the curve test myself. Any advice on what kind of meter I should purchase? Will I be able to get the same kind of accuracy as the vets office?
Thanks

Hi and welcome! Hopefully, a moderator will see this and create your own thread for you.

Getting a meter for Home testing is probably the best thing you can do for managing Max�s diabetes.

Most of us on the forum use human meters. In general, human meters test a bit lower than pet meters like the PetTest and AlphaTrak2, but that is not a problem in that we are looking for BG trends and they are very accurate at the lower BG levels. As far as human meters go, the OneTouch Ultra2 and OneTouch UltraMini are very popular. Personally, I use Walmart�s ReliOn Prime.

Also... test strips for human meters are less expensive.

**jesse girl** · 08-05-2018, 06:29 AM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

I buy strips off ebay sometimes they were expired and they worked just fine

I did get a large batch that i got in the summer months years ago that were bad . They were slow to suck up the blood .Contacted the seller and like you refunded the money . Sellers do not want negative reviews so usually if you have a problem they will take care of it

When buying strips on ebay check expiration dates. if they they dont give them then message the seller Usually if its a deal to good to be true then the strips are probably expired

After that one and only episode with those strips that were faulty i theorized they got over heated by being in the mail system in the hot summer months so i order in fall and spring and order in bulk usually 600 strips at a time and try to make 2 orders a year . I do test to see if the strips are good out of the box and haven't had any problems since that one episode

**Lolo** · 08-05-2018, 08:36 AM

Re: Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 😨

I use the Alphatrak. I bought a one touch that seems to read about 25-40 points lower than the Alphatrak when she�s under 250, but is all over the place on higher numbers. I still feel like I�m trying to perfect her doses so I�m only using the Alphatrak... even though I hate the cost of those strips.

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