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  #1  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:23 PM
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mcscaljon mcscaljon is offline
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Question Introducing Wiggles

My Lhasa Apso, 10 years old male, was diagnosed with Diabetes in late February. He was in DKA and was in hospital for 3 days. We started out on Humulin N but didn't achieve regulation. We were never below 300s. Our vet switched us to Vetsulin in May and we were regulated on 5/29 on 8.5U of Vetsulin. His curve on 5/29
5A - 207; 8A-163, 11A- 116, 2P - 89, 5P 234.

His nadir is about 6 hours post Insulin. Other health & relevant history: Wiggles is on Prednisone - 2.5 mg every other day for autoimmune disease along with Cyclosporine. On Prednisone day, we go up 0.5 unit to accommodate for the Prednisone effects. Things have been well for 1 month, then I noticed that his urine dipstick is starting to have glucose. Not sure if it's the heat or allergies, dry eyes or what factors, but his numbers have not been very good in the last two weeks. Thinking it might be rebound or some predawn effect, I went down 1 unit. Last week's curve was
5:30A- 361; 7:30a-373, 9:30a-265, 11:30a-160, 1:30p-145, 3:30p-244, 5:30p-366.
I like the low numbers but need to the high numbers to be in the 200s.
Any idea?
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Old 07-16-2017, 05:21 PM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: Introducing Wiggles

You said his numbers were not good the last couple weeks. Were they too low, is that why you decreased the dose?
Looks like the original dose was good, unless low numbers were getting too low. If so, maybe a half unit decrease, or maybe some carb treats midday on the original dose.
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Riley, 6 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, also has hypothyroid (being treated starting in April), had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 & 8.5 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, or green beans to his food.
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Old 07-16-2017, 05:30 PM
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mcscaljon mcscaljon is offline
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Default Re: Introducing Wiggles

RaySaint - We stayed at 8.5 for a month and did another curve on 7/1. On this day, his fasting was high - 406 and took much longer to get to nadir of 157 (12 hours later). We thought the dose might need to be decreased so we went down 1 whole unit. We have been chasing the numbers since then.
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Lhasa Apso 10yr old, 5 months diagnosed, Vetsulin, on Prednisone, 15 lbs, on homemade diet of roasted chicken/green beans/smidgen of spaghetti, psyllium and BalanceIT supplements.
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Introducing Wiggles

Hi and welcome to the forum.

How much does Wiggles weigh and what is his current insulin dose? Last weeks curve actually looks good, except for the fasting numbers of 361 and 366 (even those are not that bad)

Based on his 5/29 curve, it's good that you dropped 1 unit. Assuming nothing else going on, like a UTI, you may be plus or minus .5 units away from the right dose.

Are you still adjusting his dose on prednisone days?
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Lily is a 58 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroid: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meters: AlphaTrak2, ReliOn Prime
Merrick Grain Free Healthy Weight, Pumpkin, Milk Thistle, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:37 PM
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mcscaljon mcscaljon is offline
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Unhappy Re: Introducing Wiggles

MikeMurphy - Wiggles weights 15 lbs. Since going down 1 unit, I have not adjusted for his Prednisone day. Today is Prednisone day and his curve from today looks horrible
5:30a-401, 7:30a-345, 9:30a-276, 11:30a-376, 1:30p-295, 3:30p-361, 5:30p-245, 7:30p-251; 9:30p-260
He eats at 5:30a and 5:30p. At 5:30p, I went up 0.5 unit to 8.0
I thought about UTI but he doesn't have any of the symptoms of frequent urination urges.
Do you think it could be allergies / summer weather affecting? I sense that we are moving back to the original dose of 8.5 when we had good numbers on 5/29. Not sure why all of the sudden, the numbers are higher at fasting.
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Lhasa Apso 10yr old, 5 months diagnosed, Vetsulin, on Prednisone, 15 lbs, on homemade diet of roasted chicken/green beans/smidgen of spaghetti, psyllium and BalanceIT supplements.
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:44 AM
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mcscaljon mcscaljon is offline
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Default Re: Introducing Wiggles

Raysaint - I read a post from you a couple of years ago about 'high numbers in the morning'. Did you ever figure out and landed on a reason? Wiggles's fasting this morning was 350 - 8U last night.
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Lhasa Apso 10yr old, 5 months diagnosed, Vetsulin, on Prednisone, 15 lbs, on homemade diet of roasted chicken/green beans/smidgen of spaghetti, psyllium and BalanceIT supplements.
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:45 AM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: Introducing Wiggles

His fasting numbers might be high because he's adjusting to the new dose. When a dog gets a new dose, sometimes they react crazy for a couple days until their body adjusts. I think the decrease might have been too much, based on numbers now. That 5/29 curve was good, and maybe just a half unit decrease is needed, or none at all. Numbers won't be the same every day.
I read studies that showed that a curve can be different from one day to the next, and they recommend doing 2 curves to establish the nadir, and adjust from that.
If you go back to the old dose, remember he'll need 3 or 4 days to re-adjust, so don't do a curve for a few days, maybe just spot check around his nadir time, and fastings.
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Riley, 6 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, also has hypothyroid (being treated starting in April), had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 & 8.5 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, or green beans to his food.
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: Introducing Wiggles

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcscaljon View Post
Raysaint - I read a post from you a couple of years ago about 'high numbers in the morning'. Did you ever figure out and landed on a reason? Wiggles's fasting this morning was 350 - 8U last night.
The morning high numbers was during his early regulation process. That was just a couple months ago.
Turns out that we just hadn't got his evening dose right, plus I was still in the " adjust insulin dose and correct every day" mindset, which is a bad idea. I finally learned to be consistent and methodical.
high morning fasting means probably he needs an increase. But if the high mornings is just lately, after you changed his dose, it might be an initial reaction to the change. Your expectations will be different than reality I found out.
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Riley, 6 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, also has hypothyroid (being treated starting in April), had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 & 8.5 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, or green beans to his food.
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  #9  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:52 AM
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mcscaljon mcscaljon is offline
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Default Re: Introducing Wiggles

RaySaint. Thank you. It is so hard not to react to every day numbers but I am learning. I will leave well enough alone for at least 5-6 days and do another curve.
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Lhasa Apso 10yr old, 5 months diagnosed, Vetsulin, on Prednisone, 15 lbs, on homemade diet of roasted chicken/green beans/smidgen of spaghetti, psyllium and BalanceIT supplements.
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