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Old 05-09-2009, 10:31 AM
DeAnna2 DeAnna2 is offline
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Default New, help, cancer, diabetes, cushing

Just found this site yesterday. We have a 8 year old Cairn Terrier Male who was diagnosed with Mast Cell Tumor (Cancer) no cure or treatment, in Sept 2008. On May 5, 2009 we took him to a local Vet in Utah, for blood work as he was drinking more water.

I should tell you we are full time RVers, traveling around the US. So must use whatever Vet, in whatever town we are in... (not good)

Tee Jay, dogs name, weighs 27 lbs down from 30lbs in February. He is a large bone Cairn, and should weigh about 22 to 24 lbs.

Here is what the blood work showed:

Alkaline Phosphatase 1614 high normal 5-131
Glucose 410 High normal 70-138
Potassium 6.4 High normal 3.6-5.5
Chloride 99 LOW normal 102-120
Cholesterol 456 High Normal 92-324
Triglycerides 320 High normal 29-291
Lipase 1030 High normal 77-695

Differential
Monocytes 1909 High Normal 0-840

PH 8.5 High normal 5.5-7.0


Urinal YSIS
Protein 3+ High normal neg
Glucose 3+ High normal neg
Blood trace
Amorphous Phosphates Moderate High

The Vet here said he has Diabetes and has put him on Vetsulin U-40 at 6 units once a day in morning, 30 minutes past eating.

The Vet also said he has Cushing but does not want to treat that at this time.

We have been checking his blood with a human "One Touch Ultra" getting ranges between 375, 1 hour passed insulin shot in morning... and 435 just before bedtime at night.

He started insulant shots on May 7, 09.

My questions are:
should we be giving him another shot of insulin at night feeding, of 3 units?

We have read that Echinacea would be of help to him.... BUT how much should he get?

Also have read that Milk Thistle is good for his Liver... But how much should he get?

Are there any other Herbs that will help him?

Tee Jay, has a pot belly, and seems not himself.

We are feeling him twice a day, 1/4 cup, canned "EVO 95% meat" (different flavors) , mixed with 1/2 cup Dry "Call of the Wild" dog food that is high in Meat with NO GRAINS, NO CORN, NO RICE, to this we add 1/4 tsp Fish oil, and 1/2 tsp Acacia Fiber.

Because of Cancer he can have NO sugers, no grains of any kind... no corn and no rice of any kind... no CARBS.. all listed cause Cancer to grow faster.

We have checked with another Vet in differnt State that knows us and Tee Jay and he tells us the Cushing Disease is GOOD/BAD news. the good part is, it is know to slow down Mast Cell Cancer growth rate. So may not want to treat it with drugs.. Bad news is Cushing will also kill him... but which first Cancer or Cushing??? don't know.

Because of this we don't want to do drugs for Cushing... but instead try and find Herbs that will slow down the disease.

The type of Cancer Tee Jay has... we will be lucky he lives two more years ... sad... This is our second Cairn Terrier with Mast Cell Turmor. So we are familiar with it. we know he will not be with us long, so are looking to make his life as comfortable as possible.

BUT know nothing about the care of Diabetes and Cushing Disease.

Sorry, this is alot to throw at you-all, but have no were else to go for help. The Local Vet is young, just 4 years out of school, and doesn't seem to confident. The other Vet, who knows us and Tee Jay is 2,000 miles away.
We emailed him Tee Jays Blood work and have talked by phone. Trust him more. But he is harder to get a hold of.

One last point.. problem... because we are full timer RVers.. we will only be at this location till May 19th. then we move to Yellowstone WY. and have to start all over again with a "new" Vet.

We feel it's important to get Tee Jays insulin level at the right dose and try and find the right Herbs for Cushing Desease as soon as possible.

Thank you for any help you-all can give us.
De Anna
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2009, 01:08 PM
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k9diabetes k9diabetes is offline
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Default Re: New, help, cancer, diabetes, cushing

Hi De Anna,

I just have a few minutes but wondered if the vet did any testing for Cushings. If so, do you have those results.

Cushings and diabetes can be very hard to sort out - have seen a lot of dogs that actually "only" have diabetes. So I always urge caution with a new diagnosis of both. A lot depends on how the Cushings was diagnosed.

I know of only 2 dogs out of probably a hundred that managed on one injection of Vetsulin per day so I would talk to the vet about going to two a day, 12 hours apart. The dose can be reduced so that any overlap is not a problem. And a curve of Tee Jay's blood glucose would really help - you can do this yourselves and post it here and we can give you some ideas about how he's doing... This is where you test his blood sugar premeal and injection and then about every 2 hours until bedtime.

As I recall, mast cell tumors are histamine driven... is he on anti-histamine?

Seems like with these one or two disorders added to the mast cell tumors that you may need to work out an arrangement with his home vet so that he can monitor and coordinate his care. I would not be comfortable with multiple vets wandering in and out. A good internal medicine specialist would probably be willing to keep up with you by email, especially ones at the teaching hospitals. There are very good ones at Texas A&M and Univ. of Georgia in Athens.

What state is the home vet in?

Natalie
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2009, 01:51 PM
frijole frijole is offline
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Default Re: New, help, cancer, diabetes, cushing

DeAnna,

Hi and welcome. You have your hands full don't you. I agree that it would be great if you had a specialist that you could have the other vets consult with so there would be one person that knew the big picture given so much is going on with Tee Jay.

I'm a cush mom so I'll address those questions as best I can. I also would be interested in the testing that was done to dx cushings... agree it can be difficult especially if there is also diabetes involved.

Re the supplements. I have a 15+ yr old schnauzer that has had cushings for 3 yrs now. I started giving her milkthistle for her liver about a year into her treatment and it really brought her liver enzymes down. I just buy it from GNC in capsules. I pour 1/2 of a capsule in her food in the am and the other 1/2 at night. I also use fish oil.

I have no positive knowledge regarding any of the "miracle all natural cushings remedies" you find available. I know some members tried them but to my recall they all eventually treated with traditional medicine... but they weren't dealing w/the issues you are.

Your dog's tummy bloat is probably from the cushings. Very common. Are there any other cushings symptoms like ravenous appetite, drinking tons of water, peeing in the RV, hind leg weakness/shaking, hairloss, etc?

Note there are different types of cushings. By chance did this young and perplexed vet indicate what kind of cushings your dog has? You treat accordingly. I ask because atypical cushings is treated with flax, lignans and melatonin - all natural.

So as you can see getting copies of the actual tests and typing them here would greatly help us to help you. Also, if you haven't done so - start a file of all tests and a diary of symptoms so you can track over time and refer to it in the future. It really helps.

For now - get the diabetes under control. Big hugs and keep in touch!

Kim
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:51 PM
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Harley PoMMom Harley PoMMom is offline
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Default Re: New, help, cancer, diabetes, cushing

Hi De Anna and Tee Jay,

Welcome to the forum, first let me tell you that I am no expert on Cushings, but there are many here that are, they have helped me and my cushpup Harley tremendously, so hang in there, someone will be along to help out.
Next, your bloodwork you had done on Tee Jay, they will want to see the units, (example for Harley from his Lab~ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 416 H .Refererence Range 10-150 U/L ), labs use differents units. They wil also want to know what and when the test or tests the vet used to diagnose the cushings in Tee Jay, was it the Low-Dose Dexamethasone Suppression test? And remember to add the units. They will want to know his symptoms too, is he panting alot, drinking alot, peeing alot, any other symptoms you can think of, write it all down here. Did Tee Jay have any other test done? UltraSounds? Now, Take a deep breath I know this is alot to throw at you right now, but if you could list some of these things for them, and I'm sure I've missed some someone will be by and be able to give you some very knowledgable advice.

Take care, Harley and Lori

Last edited by Harley PoMMom; 05-09-2009 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:14 PM
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BestBuddy BestBuddy is offline
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Default Re: New, help, cancer, diabetes, cushing

Hi De Anna and Tee Jay.

Welcome.

I'm glad Natalie also put your post in the diabetes sectios because the cancer and maybe even the cushings is something you will just have to wait out but the diabetes must be sorted out now.
Insulin is a lifesaver but must be given in the right amounts at the right times. Some start with only one injection but it seems that two 12hours apart is the outcome.

You are BG testing so that is great and you can keep a check on how things are going. It sounds like you are already feeding twice a day so adding the second injection won't be a problem. Have you checked the BG through out the day ( a curve), this will give you lots more info regarding insulin dosages.

If it was me (remember this is just my opinion) if the Bg numbers were all 375-435 throughout the day then I would be doing 6iu and 6iu 12 hours apart and checking the numbers. Remember it can take days for the dosages to settle in so unless there were any lows I would hold the same dosage for 3-4 days before evaluating.

Jenny
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:25 PM
AlisonandMia AlisonandMia is offline
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Default Re: New, help, cancer, diabetes, cushing

Hi,

I'm sorry to hear that your little guy has so much going on.

Quote:
We have checked with another Vet in differnt State that knows us and Tee Jay and he tells us the Cushing Disease is GOOD/BAD news. the good part is, it is know to slow down Mast Cell Cancer growth rate. So may not want to treat it with drugs.. Bad news is Cushing will also kill him... but which first Cancer or Cushing??? don't know.
Cushing's is a very slow-progressing disease and if left untreated usually takes at least 2 years to kill a dog so I suspect that the Cushing's itself is probably the least of his worries and as one of the vets said, it will be "treating" the Mast Cell Cancer and probably making him feel better if the Mast Cell Tumor is putting out a lot of histamine - we lost a dog to a Mast Cell Cancer and have seen first hand what high histamine levels can do. Unfortunately the Cushing's is going to be making treating the diabetes more of a challenge.

One question: What medications is Tee Jay on?

Alison
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Old 05-09-2009, 05:52 PM
DeAnna2 DeAnna2 is offline
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Default Re: New, help, cancer, diabetes, cushing

Thanks so much for the fast replys. Funny you should mention UltraSounds, we would like one done but the closest Vet with a UltraSound Machine is in Las Vegas, 150 miles away. We called every Vet in the phone book (only 3) no one has a UltraSound Machine. You would think one would come in handy.

De Anna
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Old 05-09-2009, 06:45 PM
DeAnna2 DeAnna2 is offline
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Default Re: New, help, cancer, diabetes, cushing

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlisonandMia View Post
Hi,

Unfortunately the Cushing's is going to be making treating the diabetes more of a challenge.

One question: What medications is Tee Jay on?

Alison


Why and HOW will the cushing make treating diabetes harder?

The only meds Tee Jay is on is Vetsulin U-40 at 6 units.



We feed him twice a day, helps with "up chucks" to keep some food in his tommy. During the day we give him a few pieces of dried liver bits, from Dr. Foster & Smith Co. So far it helps.

Today we tested his blood every 2 hours, here are the results:

8:am = 427 before feeding and shot of 6 units
10: am = 364
12: pm = 282
2: pm = 312
5: pm = supper and shot of 3 units, no blood test
7: pm = 284

We decided to give him 3 units at supper because we saw his blood glucose was rising at 2. Our Vet friend said to start with 6 units in morning and if we see it's needed do 3 units at supper. We may have to increase the supper shot to 6 units.. not sure???

I see from the post that he should be getting his shot 12 hours apart... we did bad today as we gave him his second shot 8 hours after the first...

If i understand correctly, we should feed him around 7 am, wait 30 minutes, give shot of 6 units, then feed again at 7:PM, wait 30 minutes and give shot of 3 or 6 units.. is that right?

What happens if one gets up late or gets home later then 7 pm at night???

How serious is the 12 hour thing?

What happens like today, when the shots were only 8 hours apart?


My DH (dear "darn" Husband) doesn't see it a problem when we give him his shots. But i do, from what i read on this form, it seems very important to keep them 12 hours apart.

Please forgive so many questions..
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Old 05-09-2009, 07:12 PM
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Truffa's Mom Truffa's Mom is offline
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Post Re: New, help, cancer, diabetes, cushing

Hi DeAnna & Tee Jay

Welcome and sorry to hear that your pup has so many things going on. The other people here has already gave you great advice. So I am just going to add my 5 cents.

Since you are interested in herbal supplements and natural alternatives to help Tee Jay, I think you would be interested in using Essiac, which is one of the most recommended basic natural treatments for cancer in pets. It will also benefit his liver and in general his immune system. The link that I am giving you is the Essiac that I am using right now. I have used several brands, but this one I like it better. You can search for other alternatives at http://caninecancer.com/index.html or read about dosages and what other people are using and how at www.onlynaturalpet.com.

I will keep you and your pup in my prayers.

Marcela & The Choco Labs
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Old 05-09-2009, 07:20 PM
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Truffa's Mom Truffa's Mom is offline
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Post Re: New, help, cancer, diabetes, cushing

Hi De Anna, here is how Cortisol (which is high in Cushings desease) will affect insulin
Quote:
Cortisol counteracts insulin by increasing gluconeogenesis and promotes breakdown of lipids (lipolysis), and proteins, and mobilization of extrahepatic amino acids and ketone bodies
Here is the link where you can see how Cushings will affect several organs and why so many pets with cushings suffer also with diabetes, and another immune deficiencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol

Marcela & The Choco Labs

Last edited by Truffa's Mom; 05-09-2009 at 07:22 PM. Reason: fix link
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