Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Paxton's Journey

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 2
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 template Next
  • #1

    Paxton's Journey

    My MinPin mix (Paxton) was diagnosed with diabetes last December. He is a big MinPin, about 28 lbs when diagnosed. We have 2 vets since we travel between Alabama and Florida a lot. Our vet in FL prescribed 5 units of Vetsulin twice a day. His BG starts at ~400 and then drops slowly during the day, staying over 300 until the last reading is ~250 near feeding time. The next check showed the same trend, so the dose was upped to 6 units twice a day. After some more occasions of excess urination and thirst we upped to 8 units twice a day. In March of 2018 our original vet started a BG curve which showed exactly the same trend (starts at 400 drops slowly through 300s) until Paxton started to vomit, where she cut off the test in the early PM. She changed the dose to 15 units, twice a day (the dog only weighs 22.5 lbs now). Just had a new curve done in FL - same result. Starts at 400, drops slowly through the 300s. Last one didn't do a late (5 pm) test so it didn't quite reach 250s. This data seems to show resistance to Vetsulin in particular and maybe insulin in general. Vet wants to increase dose to 17 units twice a day. Don't know what to do!

    I'll post a chart of his curves if someone will tell me how to post it - can't figure out what the URL would be for the chart since it is on my computer.
    Last edited by ReidWHopkins; 06-23-2018, 09:25 AM.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Paxton's Journey

    Hi and welcome

    Not sure if your vet took the dose from 8 to 15 if so that would be a very large increase at one time Especially for a 28 pound dog

    You are seeing some movement lower so insulin is having some impact . I would test for things that may cause resistance like thyroid problems , High triglycerides and cholesterol . Has paxton had a full lab workup ?

    Any other symptoms you are seeing . How is his stools and appetite ? Any stomach upset ?

    I also had a theory that to much insulin in itself could cause some resistance . My jesse can only have no more than 3 units at a time . Anymore her blood sugar will spike and leave her with higher fastings . Maybe she has some reaction to the insulin

    You might also consider a dose reduction and see if there is a change for the better . Are you testing blood sugar at home ?
    Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
    Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Paxton's Journey

      Originally posted by jesse girl View Post
      Hi and welcome

      Not sure if your vet took the dose from 8 to 15 if so that would be a very large increase at one time Especially for a 28 pound dog

      You are seeing some movement lower so insulin is having some impact . I would test for things that may cause resistance like thyroid problems , High triglycerides and cholesterol . Has paxton had a full lab workup ?

      Any other symptoms you are seeing . How is his stools and appetite ? Any stomach upset ?

      I also had a theory that to much insulin in itself could cause some resistance . My jesse can only have no more than 3 units at a time . Anymore her blood sugar will spike and leave her with higher fastings . Maybe she has some reaction to the insulin

      You might also consider a dose reduction and see if there is a change for the better . Are you testing blood sugar at home ?
      The increase from 8 to 12 took place in two parts. My AL vet did a spot Fructo test when we brought Paxton back home. He was taking 8 U, twice a day at that time; the reading was 521 - so she raised the dosage from 8 to 12 U, twice a day. BTW, Paxton has extreme separation anxiety, so we were trying to avoid the BG curve procedure since it always made him sick. The aborted BG test was done after 12 U dose. She stopped the test after he got sick and based on the results she had after the partial test, she increased to 15 units. We did another spot BG and Fructo test after that and it seemed to be better. The last test was done in FL and really didn't look that much different than other curves done with lower doses. I have read that stress increases the BG in the system, so maybe that is part of the reason that tests done by the Vet always seem high. We are going to test at home, but haven't got our equipment yet. Paxton is (or at least was) very hyper, giving him shots was very hard to begin with and involved much biting and scratching - better now with a different technique. But, that is why I didn't want to have to take blood for testing. Stools and appetite vary - mostly OK now Paxton has had normal lab workups, nothing special. Can you tell me how to post a .jpeg so i can put his BG charts online - i can't figure out what the URL would be since the chart is on my computer?

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Paxton's Journey

        Yeah raising the dose based on a fructo test and maybe one blood test is not prudent if thats what your vet did moving to 12 . Stress hormones can elevate sugar at the vet and you may not be getting accurate normal reading in a non home environment . The problem is maybe you are raising the dose based on that elevated abnormal numbers . The problem with fructo tests for dogs is they can have such wild short swings from high to low and back up high and the tests just dont pick that up .

        my jesse when in her early days after diagnosis would go from 500 down to 70 in a few hours and back up to 500 a few hours after that so if we tested at the 6 hour mark and thats all we did we would have just kept raising the dose

        A 4 unit increase was to much to do at one time and its possible you passed the dose that was needed and i can tell you from experience if that has happened its difficult to find your way back because many dont want to go backwards but sometimes that what has to be done with no guarantees its the correct decision

        Glad you will be testing at home . you may have to do allot of it to see if you can catch some lower trends . If rebounding is occurring numbers can stay elevated for days till the hormones decrease and sugar drops again
        Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
        Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Paxton's Journey

          Good to see that you will be doing home BG testing.

          I agree with jesse girl that his insulin increases may have been made in the wrong manner. The proper way to get to regulation is to do a 12 hour BG curve and based on the results, raise the dose in .5 or 1 unit increments, let the dose settle in for a week and repeat the process until his nadir(low Blood Glucose reading) gets to 150.

          Fructosomine tests and spot BG tests should not be used to increase insulin. Increases should only be made based on the lowest reading in the 12 hour curve.

          It’s possible that you have gone past his correct dose.

          To post pictures or .jpg’s, you need to upload them to a free photo hosting web site like www.postimages.org and then copy and paste the link to the photo into your post.

          As an alternative, our forum allows each user to upload 30 pictures via the forum User CP, located near the upper left corner of your screen. After you open the Control Panel, select Pictures and Albums, add an Album, then upload your pictures to the album. To imbed your picture in a post... open your picture, copy the picture’s BB Code, then paste into your post. You can select Preview Post to make sure it worked properly.
          Last edited by MikeMurphy; 06-23-2018, 12:10 PM.
          Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
          Diabetes: Aug 2013
          Went peacefully to heaven on 04-24-2021
          Video in Lily’s memory: https://www.facebook.com/10000201631...3260300417807/

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Paxton's Journey

            Originally posted by MikeMurphy View Post
            Good to see that you will be doing home BG testing.

            I agree with jesse girl that his insulin increases may have been made in the wrong manner. The proper way to get to regulation is to do a 12 hour BG curve and based on the results, raise the dose in .5 or 1 unit increments, let the dose settle in for a week and repeat the process until his nadir(low Blood Glucose reading) gets to 150.

            Fructosomine tests and spot BG tests should not be used to increase insulin. Increases should only be made based on the lowest reading in the 12 hour curve.

            It’s possible that you have gone past his correct dose.

            To post pictures or .jpg’s, you need to upload them to a free photo hosting web site like www.postimages.org and then copy and paste the link to the photo into your post.

            As an alternative, our forum allows each user to upload 30 pictures via the forum User CP, located near the upper left corner of your screen. After you open the Control Panel, select Pictures and Albums, add an Album, then upload your pictures to the album. To imbed your picture in a post... open your picture, copy the picture’s BB Code, then paste into your post. You can select Preview Post to make sure it worked properly.
            Thanks, I would never have figured the upload thing without help. I guess the problem we had was that we were always moving between locations. Our FL Vet did the 5U and 6U but felt that we should be going higher. The AL vet saw Paxton again with a really high Fructo reading, so she was reacting to an emergency. No one really suspected insulin resistance. I went on this site pretty early, but didn't want to commit to my own testing because Paxton is (was) so hyper. Paxton's separation anxiety made it hard to get a decent reading at either place. I'm afraid now he is going blind!!

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Paxton's Journey

              Originally posted by ReidWHopkins View Post
              ...I'm afraid now he is going blind!!
              You might want to consider trying drops if he has signs of cataracts. Depending how far along (how large and how dense) they are the drops may hold them at bay and possibly, just possibly cause some reversal.

              Google Lanomax. Buy direct from the company in California.

              I'd also consider adding nutrients to help his eyes maintain good health. Check my signature for what I use with Scooter.

              Have your vet check his eyes for glaucoma on the next visit. That needs to be controlled for any of this to work at all.
              Last edited by Scooterspal; 06-24-2018, 03:15 AM.
              Diagnosed 9/15/17. A 17 lb. terrier mutt, 15 years old. My bestest friend. Novolin N 6U, Novolin R 3U, 2X/day. Cesar Classics 3.5 oz. packets w/ 4 tbsps of old fashion Quaker Oats, 2x day. Probiotic every 3 or 4 days. Omega 3, two 300 mg. capsules 1X/day for skin. Occuguard Plus, Billberry, Lutein, Vit E, Vit C every meal for eyes.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Paxton's Journey

                Thanks to MikeMurphy I think I have figured out how to post a graph of Paxton's BG tests over the last 6 months.

                Last edited by ReidWHopkins; 06-24-2018, 03:35 AM. Reason: Trying to add image

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Paxton's Journey

                  If I'm reading this correctly, your pet is above 250 all the time. At that level cataracts are almost almost inevitable.
                  Diagnosed 9/15/17. A 17 lb. terrier mutt, 15 years old. My bestest friend. Novolin N 6U, Novolin R 3U, 2X/day. Cesar Classics 3.5 oz. packets w/ 4 tbsps of old fashion Quaker Oats, 2x day. Probiotic every 3 or 4 days. Omega 3, two 300 mg. capsules 1X/day for skin. Occuguard Plus, Billberry, Lutein, Vit E, Vit C every meal for eyes.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Paxton's Journey

                    Yes, he doesn't seem to respond to Vetsulin at any level. I'm thinking of changing the type of insulin. BTW, Paxton has extreme separation anxiety, so these readings at the Vet may be high. I'm just getting setup to do my own BG readings.
                    Last edited by ReidWHopkins; 06-24-2018, 04:39 AM. Reason: Added a thought.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Paxton's Journey

                      Originally posted by Raysaint View Post
                      You need to get the vet to do thyroid tests, either at least a free T4 test or full panel. If they don't know how to do that, they shouldn't be vets.

                      Also have them check the lipids and tryglycerides. If those are high, that can cause insulin resistance.

                      Check this link.

                      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20219491
                      As Raysaint mentioned in the other thread, make sure your vet rules out any concurrent issues like hypothyroidism.

                      Also take a look at the Troubleshooting section of the 2018 AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats. It’s a little technical, but it should give you a good idea on how the process works...
                      https://www.aaha.org/guidelines/diab...eshooting.aspx
                      Last edited by MikeMurphy; 06-25-2018, 09:33 AM.
                      Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
                      Diabetes: Aug 2013
                      Went peacefully to heaven on 04-24-2021
                      Video in Lily’s memory: https://www.facebook.com/10000201631...3260300417807/

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Paxton's Journey

                        Thanks Mike, good article. In reviewing data from my vet, Paxton's triglycerides were out of sight during one recent visit. At the time, she thought Pancreatitis because PSL was also extremely high. His BG during this test was 203 (spot check). Basically the change addressing pancreatitis was a low fat diet, we started feeding him boiled chicken breast with some Hill's dry dog food.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Paxton's Journey

                          I assume the triglycerides were tested at fasting, not at some time after he ate.
                          Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Paxton's Journey

                            That is a good point on the Triglycerides, it just during a normal day, so he did eat. He had been vomiting, which was why we took him in. I got my Alpha Track 2 yesterday and learned from our vet how to take blood from Paxton's ear. He is fighting our every attempt - he is extremely strong for a 22 lb dog! His BG was over 500 when I was at the vet learning - she got a similar reading on her unit. We finally got a reading at home which was a little better - but still high. Is there a better place than the ear? He also fought the insulin needle for a long time - we finally reached an understanding.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Paxton's Journey

                              Does Paxton have any skin tags or bumps? These are great to give blood and not many nerve endings. You can also try the base of the tail, just off to the side. The skin is tough there so you need a thick lancet and you have to shave a spot. Use some of your boiled chicken or the absolute favorite treat every time you handle him. Before long, Maggie hardly noticed testing and actually if I got my kit out, she would come running. Try to make it the happiest thing ever and hide any anxiety you have. It is worse for us than them.

                              The ear and lip were a no-go for Maggie, but blood is blood so you just have to look for a callous or wart or tag or a less sensitive spot.
                              Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 template Next
                              Working...
                              X