Winston - Odd numbers; need advice

[crose0056]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

I am only 2 months into this stuff with my dog. I did go out and purchase a meter from Walmart and strips. I try to test her before I give insulin. Sometimes that does not work well, but I try. I also tested my meter to the one that the vet uses and it was 30 points lower than theirs. Keeping that in mind Shana always testes between the 60 to 100 range and I have seen no episodes of low blood sugar. I really try to keep her on a 12 hour schedule and the exact amount of food, and no snack in-between. With this strict regiment I feel very successful in her management. It took almost a month to get her to the level we are right now. Keep it constant and you will have success. I test in the ear that seems to work well with her and me. Carol

[jesse girl]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

100 to 250 for jesse many are perfectly happy with 150 to 250

many times the reason for higher sugar is dogs arent that stable maybe its the insulin they use and how its processed . their metabolism has a big affect like exercise and excitement which can drop sugar dramatically

its rare to see what looks like normal sugar but my jesse goes through times when her sugar is very good and we are having one of those periods now maybe 80 to 180 . Another factor is how stable sugar is i think numbers less than a 100 from low to high for the day is excellent and very stable . 200 is still ok but anything above 200 sugar isnt very stable

jesses vet hasn't tested her sugar in 6 years and i dont have them involved with her diabetes.we haven't done a complete curve in 5 years but we test 3 times every day sometimes more depending if sugar is out of whack . i consider myself the fore most expert on my jesses diabetes and i believe all caretakers should consider being an expert for there individual dogs diabetes

now the more you put into it the better opportunity you will have for better more stable sugar

[MomofGus]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

Hi, Aggie. Don't worry about the questions, as we all had them and still have them from time to time. The range for a dog, according to my vet is 250-80, with optimum being in the 100's. However, there are some dogs who are different and their normal may run a little higher. As for testing at the vet, we only do when we have a six month checkup or if he's having a problem, such as bladder infection, which is very common in diabetic dogs. When he's tested at the vet, it's usually just with a urine dip stick, unless it's time for six month bloodwork.

I feel it's very important to home test at home. It may take some getting used to, but it soon becomes part of the normal daily routine. In the regulation phase, it's normal to test more than a couple times a day. I always test before each meal, and generally mid-day (but not always mid-day). I started out home testing right away with the Alphatrak2 meter. The meter starter kit is not that expensive, but the strips are rather costly. I have now switched to the Advocate Pettest meter, where the strips are half the cost. I use my Alphatrak as a backup and double check to the Advocate meter if I get what I think is an off number. Testing at the vet every time becomes costly and unnecessary. Since you are pre-diabetic, do you go to the doctor every time you check your sugar?

I test my little dog on his elbow callus just about the back of his paw pad. It's easy to get blooddrop from him and doesn't hurt him. Some use the inner upper lip or ear, but I feel for my dog, it would hurt him more and he might not cooperate. There are videos online to show you how, but you should ask your vet. I am blessed that my Gus cooperates on his testing and his shots. In the beginning, I was the problem and I was very stressed about it all - overwhelmed. Hope all this helps. I'm sure others will chime in. A lot of good support and knowledge here and I was so glad to find this forum. It gave me the knowledge and helped me to discuss with my vet.

[crose0056]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

When I first started out here I read posts for hours. This is a wonderful spot for new beginners in the pet diabetic area.

[Aggie]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

I'm confused what and where an elbow callus is. Do you mean the pad where the dewclaw is? Because I can't see anything on his elbow which I would call a callus?

I do all my own testing for my own pre diabetes with my meter and get a lab test once every 6 months. Since I don't have a diabetes diagnosis, I pay for my strips out of pocket. They are expensive but after 4 years, I kind of know what to eat and what not to so I don't have to test very often any more.

I don't think Winston will react well to this procedure unless it is actually painless. Since I test myself in the finger, it is not painless. So if it comes down to it, I'd like to know the best place to test him. The lip sounds like it would be pretty painful to me.

[MomofGus]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

Yes, it the little pad above the paw near the dewclaw. My boy lays back in my lap and gets hugs and kisses and belly rub. We do the prick with the lancet while in that position on my lap. I have the strip partially in the meter, lancet, and alcohol prep pad all on the arm of the chair within reach. Quick and easy for us. He takes his shot while sitting across my lap in the same chair. As I said, I am fortunate that he has been so easy to work with. He's a sweetheart for sure. I keep the hair trimmed in that area.

I've never tried the other areas as this works well for us.

As for testing, dogs sugar seems to fluctuate quite a bit. You can have a really high day for no reason, or a low just out of the blue. It's important to catch the low's. If the high's run high for a period of time, then you know something may be wrong - perhaps a bladder infection or something else. This is one reason to test regularly.

[Eddie]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

Our dog has not been tested by the vet in the last four years. As soon as we got a meter we just took responsibility for that and it seemed unnecessary to get the vet to do any other testing.

I would like Eddie's numbers to stay between about 100-250 but they often don't! Some days they do but often they fluctuate for no obvious reason. I don't think we could keep them within such a tight range unless we did almost nothing else but monitor him and we'd probably go mad obsessing about numbers.

For most purposes it seems to be good enough. He has now been diabetic for nearly four and a half years and still has a good quality of life, although he is getting older and slowing down now. My impression from him is that dogs are quite robust as to the range of numbers they can tolerate, and probably far more so than humans. They also have the disease for far fewer years than most human diabetics, just due to their shorter lifespan.

He has got cataracts but he had already lost his sight from another cause before he got diabetes so that didn't happen to make any difference to him.

For what it is worth we test on the inside of the lip. He doesn't seem to be bothered by it . Right now he is lying beside me waving his front paw around to indicate that he would like me to test him because he wants the treat that he gets afterwards. If I told him I was going to test him now he would stand up and wag his tail at me. So I assume that whatever pain he feels is pretty minimal and is immediately forgotten in the joy of the treat! (He's an hour early for his test so he will be disappointed for a while longer! He isn't that good at telling the time).

Antonia

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Diet for diabetic dog

Another thought may be a supplement, have you researched fish oil? We had success with fish oil in lowering triglycerides.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

I remember the feeling all too well, as a newbie, and where to test. My Abby was a fussy pup, and did not like even like to be touched, if she was not in the mood......so, we found the base of the tail worked well. I used a lancet that was a bit thicker, and you know.....she did not even mind, nor flinch. Anywhere else...she would not allow.

Range of blood sugar, well she was a special pup in many ways. I was happy in the 100-299 range...but she was all over the board. Dogs can take higher blood sugar than us humans, and if there are large swings between high and low, you may need to be a bit more flexible. If you have tighter numbers, then your goal may be from 100-250 or better.

Good luck on this new journey.

Barb

[k9diabetes]

Re: Diet for diabetic dog

Hard to argue with anything that's working!

Diabetic dogs are bit different from diabetic people - there are quite a few species differences for dogs, cats, and people in terms of diabetes. Cats for example, almost never get cataracts while cataracts are very common in dogs. And cats frequently get diabetic neuropathy, which is infrequent in dogs.

Also, insulins typically work faster in dogs than in people. Which is why dogs often need some carbs in their diets to balance the action of injected insulin. On something like a nearly all protein diet, they can suffer from low blood sugar because the insulin is in high gear but the protein diet is still being digested.

And then there's the every dog and person is different...

So, comparisons aren't necessarily all that useful. If he is doing well on his current diet, great!

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

It's a combination of things... one is the risk of lows. Dogs typically don't need and, in fact, can't use a combination of long acting and fast acting insulin the way people do because many of them process the insulins quickly. Fast acting is just too fast and their blood sugar can plunge. And medium acting insulins like N work well for them for both their basal and their bolus blood sugar. Their blood sugar can vary significantly from day to day based on digestion, activity level, stress, and even temperature. So it's safer for them to stay a little higher to accommodate days when their blood sugar is lower than usual.

We tested fairly often but still I wouldn't want to test my dog's blood sugar every couple of hours every day for the rest of his life.

And that works because dogs tolerate high blood sugar much better than people do. They basically don't suffer any of the cardiovascular and organ problems human diabetics do. Cataracts are the main side effect, and for many dogs the cataracts are already developed before they are diagnosed.

Whether a dog gets cataracts varies individually too. Some never do despite having relatively high blood sugar.

I've been involved in forums for diabetic dogs since 2004 have seen literally hundreds of dogs go through diabetes over that time. Plenty of them never had blood sugar below 200. As long as it stayed between 200 and 300, they did great and lived long normal healthy happy lives.

I like diabetes control in dogs to be "as good as it can safely be" - no reason to risk deadly hypoglycemia to keep it under 120. So unless a dog's blood sugar is really stable day to day (a few are but I'd say they are the minority), it's worth it to me to let the blood sugar run higher.

Staying between 100 and 200 was our goal but we certainly did not achieve that anything like every day. And between 200 and 300 would have been more than enough for our dog to have a good life.

Natalie

What do people aim for? As a pre diabetic person, I aim for a range of 80 to 120 at all times. But blood glucose numbers that I am seeing on posts here for dogs are much higher, way higher than would be safe for a person.

Is that just because of the chance of a low? Is it because dogs don't require such control for some reason (I'm thinking the cataract issue indicates they kind of do, and isn't normal for dogs in the low 100 range?). Is it just because it's impossible to tightly control this in dogs?

How often is your dog tested by the vet? Do you also test at home with a meter?

Lots of questions, I know. We are one week in as of today.

[Aggie]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

Well, I guess the reason I am very focused on the cataracts is because that seems to be the major complication, and I am wondering if they are preventable or at least able to be delayed with better control. Winston does not have them at the moment, and his blood sugar was normal a mere 6 months ago, so he hasn't had diabetes for very long.

It just kind of seems logical to me that cataracts would be more likely if the blood sugar is consistently over 200 than if it is consistently below 200. I am thinking there is no real study on that, so this might be an unanswerable question.

[jesse girl]

Re: What is the target blood glucose range?

It is kind of unanswerable . there maybe factors like diet may enter the equation i had that as a thought with my jesse but its impossible to know without studies done

they did have a drug they were doing trials on specifically for dogs to prevent them . i forget what it was called but there was a member or 2 on that trial none active on the forum that i ca tell

yes probably the only thing that can be done is controlling blood sugar what that control needs to be to have success is we dont know . you would assume the closer to normal the better

the problem with this disease for dogs it can be painstakingly slow to regulate. a dogs body is trying to adapt to something completely foreign to how the natural process works . so you cant move to fast with regulation as you could easily overshoot the dose amount leading to prolonging the regulation process . some do regulate quite quicly and some dont

i did whatever i could do to keep jesses sugar from going high i tested day and night and she settled down and was able to relax a bit

i do understand if you can preserve sight do it but remember there are limitations to what can be done

[bontemp]

Re: New and pretty overwhelmed

Hi,
I haven't been around here in ages and your posts caught my eye, both this one and your food question.

First, you will get the hang of the shots, both you and your pup. I know it's a crazy time in the beginning, but you can do this. There are videos on here somewhere...can't remember where exactly...that really helped us figure out how and where to inject. I do know that for us, we have to be consistent in the location, or his absorption/effectiveness of the insulin can vary.

My schnauzer is on Vetsulin, twice a day, since diagnosis, March 2015. We also feed him the WD food, which works great with the Vetsulin, for us.

He also has high triglycerides and takes a fish oil pill twice a day to help with that. He still has his eyesight, which his internal medicine vet says is a miracle.

We do hometesting with the Alphatrak 2 Pet meter. I'd be lost without being able to home test his blood glucose.
Hang in there!

Schnauzer weight? We are 4 weeks into trying to stabilize with Hansel (17#), start 4 units 2x/day, then 5, then 5.5, now 6 and lowest nadir is 236 - probably wait a few days and go to 6.5 - having teeth cleaned this week, any comment on the teeth cleaning with diabetic dog?

[bontemp]

Re: New and pretty overwhelmed

Our BLACK MAGIC (expired in 2010, thread maybe still on the site) went blind, had cornea transplant on one eye, the other would not work, he had happy days for another year but passed due to sudden illness from unknown causes. The surgery was expensive ($4k) but successful, pity that other factors got him. You just never know - the family trauma of his blindness, then the surgery, and recovery time, wearing the halo etc. were difficult but having his sight, at least for a while, was worth it.