Mik is gone...

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Bob,
It's why I advocate pretty strongly... possibly even nag and whine ... about our being an integral part of our dog's veterinary care/decisions. Natalie

Yes, when Mik's appetite dropped off, I should have pressed the vet for methods to get him to eat. It never occurred to me to force feed him. Instead, per vet's advice, I lowered the insulin in the "hopes" he would begin eating.

Of course, that was a disaster, and both Mik and I went through hell getting him back on track, back to where we were a few weeks ago when he was balanced and slowly gaining wt.

So, we took a giant step back wards, and it was the Pet ER who said, "You MUST force feed him! Get 200 calories into him if you have to shove it down his throat."

Well, the kitchen looked like the morning after a frat house food fight, but it worked. Now, it's step by step back to where things were going well.

Tonight his consumption was mediocre, but two bouts of hunger barking and all I offered was Purina. He sniffed and walked the first time, but ate about 100 calories the second.

So he is learning. Slowly...

more:
30 minutes after sending the above, Mik had another hunger bark episode. I offered nothing but Purina, and after long, painful, annoying, frustrating consideration, he finally decided it was okay and ate another 100 calories.

No, I do NOT recommend this method, but it is getting wt on the little devil, so I'll put up with it.

[CarolW]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

....

I believe that. Mik is trying to communicate something, and I have learned the distinction between his hunger bark and anger bark. Regardless, I try to resolve either one.

Robert - you are doing so well; learning to discover something of what Mik is saying. It can be frustrating to determine just what a dog is saying; we can only test, to find out - and sometimes, conditions prevent our testing some things! But your learning to distinguish between barks is just wonderful.

You might find some other useful tips from the works of Turid Rugaas, which are listed here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/stressdown.php#workslist

I'm still watching closely; I hope Mik continues well with the Purina.

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 08:19:54 (PDT)

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Thanks Carol, I read a lot on that site, understood some, but not all.

But generally good stuff.

Tonight is back to our frustration periods when Mik gives the hungry bark, but nothing will make him happy or eat. One minute after I leave the kitchen, he is barking again.

I try the various foods, but he sniffs each one and walks away. He has some food on his little mind, but I have given up trying to figure it out.

Luckily, he ate well last night or it would be syringe time. He ate the minimum, so I will let it go this night.

Two hours of this routine is quite enough for me.

more

I did not respond to his last 10 minutes of barking so Mik gave up and went to bed. He is quite disgusted with me right now.

[CarolW]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Robert - dogs generally don't hold grudges. Maybe Mik isn't perfectly happy, but if he's sleeping, he's doing okay for the moment, and is reasonably contented.

You are surely doing all that is humanly possible to try to keep Mik happy and well. We WILL face these frustrating periods at times.

And yes; two hours of the routine is more than enough for one time! (I ignored Kwali's "feed me" bark for nearly an hour this evening; finally, she stopped barking - shortly after, I gave her her evening snack - now she's sleeping peacefully too.)

I hope you can hang in there, and be very, very pleased that you are able to distinguish which barks mean approximately what. All I can do at my end is, hope Mik continues to eat the Purina - enough so he can have his insulin. Sending you all we can muster of those forces of the Universe to support your magnificent effort!

Big hugs to you, Mik, and Mak too,

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:42:37 (PDT)

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

It paid off to some degree. He ate a large breakfast, so it all worked out.

[BestBuddy]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Robert, it is called tough love.
When they learn that you are not going to give in they give up....supposedly. I was never very good at it because I could only hold out so long but they tell me it works.

Jenny

[CarolW]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

It paid off to some degree. He ate a large breakfast, so it all worked out.

Oh, Robert; that's a good sign. Good for you; good for Mik. Perhaps more regular eating of better food is helping him stabilize - feel better. (Along with that allowing you to shoot him better; haha!)

Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:05:54 (PDT)

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Mediocre breakfast, but good dinner! Almost his daily maintenance wt, so if\when he barks for more, that should be on the weight + side.

[peggy0]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Great news Robert!! Glad you're having a better week

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

I believe the old saying, "If something is going well, don't mess with it." That's the way it's been with Mik, and I hesitated mentioning it, tempting fate.

But it has been a great week. Yes, his 5 am breakfast is mediocre at best, 50-75 calories, but he makes up for it after the 5 pm feeding. Of course I have the time to hold him a great deal more, whisper soft words in his ear, and generally ease his anxiety.

With all his "more" barking in the evening, he is getting about 400 calories a day, and he's gained 3/4 pound.

So, I live with the barking. Some day I might succeed in breaking that annoying habit, but for now, I will gladly take the extra work and call it a success.

Since things are going well and he's eating well, I have not returned for the two stage blood tests because they do stress him a great deal. Perhaps this week.

[Roxee'sDad]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Hi Robert,
Wow, gained 3/4 of a pound This is really good news. You put a smile on my face today. I am so happy for you and Mik.

You are a saint!

John (Roxee's Dad)

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Hi Robert,

Great news about wee Mik gaining 3/4 pound you are doing really well.

You deserve a big pat on the back you have never gave up trying I admire you for that

Hugs to you all.

[We Hope]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Bob,

This is great news--Mik's being "up" 3/4 of a pound!

This is from a recent article on diabetes from DVM 360--thought I'd share the thoughts of this specialist as they seem to have been written for Mik:

http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com...09%09&pageID=8

Diabetes Mellitus DVM 360-April 2009-CVC Proceedings

"Palatability, however, is sometimes an issue and if the diabetic dog refuses the ideal diet it is not in the patient's best interest to rigidly insist that the caregiver only feed the prescribed food. The consequences of feeding a non-prescription diabetes diet are usually minimal as the increased dose of required insulin is seldom greater that 2-4%.

"It is also important that some latitude in feeding times be considered. Although timed feedings that correspond to insulin administration maybe ideal, some dogs (although with less frequency than cats) refuse to adhere to timed feedings, having been intermittent nibblers all of their lives. In as much as most dogs are treated with basal insulin only (no feeding associated pulse insulin administration), dogs that refuse to eat specifically at the time of intermediate acing insulin administration can usually be satisfactorily regulated. In the overall context of initial home insulin administration, efforts should be made to keep dogs eating even if the food type and feeding schedule is not textbook optimized."

This is how you've been approaching things since Mik was diagnosed 6 months ago and while you both have had more than your share of ups and downs, I think you're both winners (and it appears the doctor would too)!

Kathy

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Fascinating stuff, Kathy, many thanks!

Yes, "...even if the food type and feeding schedule is not textbook optimized."

Is classic Mik. I try to control the cheerios because of the sugar. but the baby food has zero sugar and low carbs, and the Purina is probably well balanced.

His barking mode is not, "I am hungry, feed me", but rather, "I am hungry, but feed me what I want."

This results in musical bowls. I rotate until finding the 'right one'. He most certainly has a 'taste' in mind, and nothing else will work. There are times--and I'm trying to increase them--when Purina is what he craves at that moment. He will eat a half can, 300 calories, without letup. But he might not touch Purina for another two days. Other times, it's the baby food he wants, 100 calories/jar, and he will gobble down two or three jars.

I am trying to control the cheerios, but at times, that is ALL he wants.

For that day, at least.

Mik is a very selective connoisseur.

[We Hope]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Bob,

Have had two dogs who were really particular. One was Crumpet, our Old English. He would turn down doggie bags of prime rib because they weren't cooked at home. He loved pizza from the local delivery but when it came to pasta and sauce, he didn't like the restaurant's at all--loved it made at home though.

My current one, Toodles, can make your hair stand on end with what he likes and doesn't. Everything he likes that people normally eat would make for a very badly balanced diet.

When I adopted him, the shelter was feeing Flint River Ranch and I continued that. Not long after, he decided to try not eating the Flint River. Tried some canned food which he loved, but he got diarrhea every time he had it. So back to the Flint River and when he got hungry enough he ate it.

When we discovered he had absence seizures, we also learned that some of the things he liked could trigger them, so a lot of treats just don't come into the house any more.

About a year and a half ago, Flint River did a slight re-formulation, adding cranberries and blueberries; Toodles thought it was horrible and wasn't going to eat "that stuff". We tried him on another similar quality food which he liked, but there was something in it that started him having problems with the seizures again. Back to Flint River and eat it when you're hungry enough.

Recently changed supermarkets and bought the deli hot chicken when there, just as I'd done at the other one. Toodles refused to eat it (but loved the same thing from the other store); he's finally decided that this chicken is just as good.

They keep us busy, don't they?

Kathy