Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

..at 4:30 he was 18, which is still pretty high
..when talking to vet i mentioned about the food being weight management and he said maybe he does need a bit of fat
..on gut feeling i have fed him 1 cup of royal canin and half a can of tinned food to see if this does in fact make a difference

5pm took to beach for half an hour, got back at 6
..at 7:30 he was 19.3 gave 10 units, will check him again at about 9:30 to see how we going

p.s. thanks natalie about the tip of giving him food before exercise, weather is great here.

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

..ok so had another change of heart, going back to basics for a couple of days, was in a bit of a panic state with reading too much info on internet, found a UK site with feeding requirements for Royal canine, about 6 cups for a normal dog per day (vet told me 1.5 am and pm was enough), so we have not been feeding him anywhere enough food for months. Monty was 36kg when first diagnosed and is now down to 31kg.
sooo this morning..
7am - 2.5 cups royal canine + dollop of canned food
7:30pm - 21.1, gave 15 units
12:30pm - 15.2
4:30pm - 10.3
5:45 - fed same again (had to feed earlier cos were going out)
6:15pm - 13.7, gave 12 units
9:05 - 14.5

..so all in all not looking too bad, still a bit high, seems to be coping ok with the cataracts, bumps into a few things and think he got the eye infection as my other dog has a whippy tail and he not got used to dodging it. It is still a bit upsetting watching him, wished i had done more earlier.

Its all a learning curve and this site has helped me alot.

Will keep posted, again, thanks for all the advice.

Monty & Simone

[CarolW]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Hi Simone,

Wow, BIG change in amount of food for Monty! Although numbers suggested by the manufacturer could easily be too much, what a vast difference between the 1.5 cups the vet said to feed, and the 6 cups the manufacturer says to feed!

I'm struggling with amounts to feed my non-diabetic dog, Camellia, now. But the amounts aren't so LARGE as that (also, she's a small dog, less than 18 pounds).

http://www.coherentdog.org/camcome.php

Hope you'll keep us posted about how things go with Monty's food - and insulin, too. More food would typically require more insulin, as well, as I'm sure you know.

So I'll watch for your further reports.

Thu, 30 Dec 2010 04:44:37 (PST)

[peggy0]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Glad you up'ed his food. Most dog food manufacturers exagerate what the dog actually needs. You'll just have to judge based on how much weight he gains It is all about learning your dog

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

First, happy new year to all
..it has been four days since we upped his food, and insuliin injections 12 hours apart (or close to). He is still high most of the day, the lowest being 10, highest being 23.2.
One night at 8:30pm he was around 10, at the same time next night he was around 20.
We have been giving between 15 and 18 units twice a day. Gonna up it tonight to maybe 20. (when one shot a day we were at 23 units)
We are feeding him 2.5 cups royal canine weight management twice a day. He does not scoff it down now, he used to almost pass out eating it so quickly.
Trial and error and alot of patience is required i think.

Monty does not seem happy at all, thought he was a bit depressed yesterday, think his eyes are bothering him, keeps them closed most of the time. Do cataracts cause alot of irritation?? The vet we saw last week gave us eye drops (maxitrol) saying he probably had an infection from pollen. We have been using them in the other eye as well now, hope this is not making it worse. We also thought he might have got sand in them from the beach but this was two days ago.

Other than this he is getting around the house fine. A few bumps every now and then, i say "careful" or "wait" if i see if he walking into anything and "step" when going down stairs.
I have another dog Bailey, at Christmas they got rawhide chew bones..have not eaten them, but for the last week, monty has buried, Bailey found, Monty buried etc etc. it is quite amusing and keeps them occupied. They finally decided to eat today..sharing of course.

Will keep posted. Thanks always for any advice
Simone

[k9diabetes]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Yes cataracts can cause a lot of inflammation and Monty should be put on eye drops to contain the inflammation.

I worry, actually, with the closing them and the runny eye whether he might not have scratched his cornea. The vet can stain it with a green dye to see if there is any tear or scratch - did the vet do that when you saw him or her recently?

I would have him back to the vet since keeping his eyes closed is not normal and he seems to be showing signs of pain.

Corneal ulcers are a pretty common thing. They should heal up fairly quickly on their own. The vet can give some meds to make them less painful in the meantime as there are a lot of nerves there so they can be very painful.

Maxitrol is neopolydex so antibiotic with a little steroid, which may raise his blood sugar while he is on it. He will need a nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drop long-term. Flurbiprofen is one that is often used and is very affordable.

Natalie

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

..thanks natalie,
i was wondering if the eye drops could be irritating him more, so have not given him any tonight and will see how he is in the morning.
It is public holidays for the next two days so will not be able to go to vet until wednesday. Hopefully my vet will be back then...cant believe the vet i did see did not know about cataracts and inflammation. The vet did give some local anaesthetic into the eye and poked around to see if there was a foreign body in third eyelid but no dye.
I also read that with cataracts he could have a massive headache that just wont go away..have you heard this???

simone

[k9diabetes]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

I've never heard of anything like a headache from cataracts. Our dog did well with cataracts and anti-inflammatory drops for four years and never had any problems from the cataracts themselves.

I don't know if you have a veterinary ophthalmologist available in your area but I really recommend seeing one if you do. General practice vets have very limited skill with ophthalmology issues typically and also often lack good equipment for diagnosing eye problems.

I had read online about inflammation and cataracts. Here's a really good article that got me pointed in the right direction:

Cataracts in Diabetic Dogs

The GP vet had never mentioned anything about inflammation from the cataracts. So I opted to have him seen by an ophthalmologist, who diagnosed inflammation and prescribed the drops. The GP vet's tool for checking eye pressure (tonometer) looked like something Leonardo da Vinci might have invented! While the ophthalmologist had a very nice digital tonometer and a much more thorough understanding of all of the issues associated with the cataracts.

Chris also had corneal ulcers periodically that did not heal properly and the GP vet was not able to do the kinds of keratotomy procedures that Chris needed for those ulcers to heal.

Is he rubbing his eyes?

If so, that can do further damage so it would be good to very closely supervisor him or put an e-collar on him until he can be seen. I know... they HATE those things...

It wouldn't be all that unusual for a dog to have bumped into something while adjusting to blindness and scraped the cornea.

The other possibility is that he's allergic to the neomycin in the drops - probably his eyes would be red if he's allergic. Neomycin is a common allergen and Chris always had to have other antibiotics used for his eyes.

Natalie

[CraigM]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

It wouldn't be all that unusual for a dog to have bumped into something while adjusting to blindness and scraped the cornea.

Last fall Annie ran into our rose bushes and scratched her good eye. Several trips to the eye doctor. Although she still sees out of one eye, I watch where she is walking outside to keep her out of sticks and thorns!


New thought: Just got home from the trip for her food (BB, Healthy Weight) and trip to Walmart for her insulin (bought a "Confirm" meter to play with) and got her a new toy. She hasn't put the toy down in the 30 minutes we've been home. Wonder how her BG will be after an hours chew / play? I'll test her once she puts it down.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Stress, pain, inflammation, infection, and the steroid in the drop all could be contributing to higher blood sugar. And, when relieved, could help his blood sugar come back down.

He will need a curve on his new food to see how his food and insulin are balancing out - fingers crossed that things are good and he just needs more insulin.

Natalie

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

..wow, as soon as i stopped the drops three days ago his BG's have been between 7 and 16, which is really good and am a bit pissed off with the vet, surely he should have known a dog with diabetes should not be given those drops.
We are giving 18 units in am and pm 12 hours apart, and feeding 12 hours apart. He is starving at night, wolfing his food down and almost passing out..i have to make him eat slowly.
His eyes are still irritating him, cant wait until 8am (now 6:30) will be the first one at their door. He does rub one of them a little bit, not much though. The other eye seems to be the same. He does not seem to like opening them.
When I asked the vet about seeing an opthalmologist he said, well maybe we could do that but i dont know if it would do any good.

..will keep you posted on my visit to the vet this morning. I think if we can get his eyes sorted he will be a much happier doggie.

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Good afternoon,

Soaphie-diggity is on several eye drops that help with inflammation and with dry eye (her eyes were SO dry she was always squinting). Here is her protocol:

M, W, F, S = a.m. = flurbiprofen, tacrolimus, cyclosporine and optiplex gel
every p.m. = tacrolimus and optiplex gel
T, Th, S a.m. = tacrolimus, cyclosporine and optiplex gel

These drops really seem to help her. They were prescribed by a canine opthamologist.

Good luck!

Tami

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

..cool thanks tami, that is exactly what he is doing....squinting
will take that list with me this morning

simone

[pgcor]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Hi Simone - I just wanted to welcome you and to also let you know that my dog had the same eye issues as Monty and Soaphie. Our regular Vet never caught that it was dry eye syndrome. It was thought that Pip was injuring his own eye.

Luckily, we were seeing a holistic Vet who suggested we see a Veterinary Ophthalmologist.

Pip was put on a similar protocol as Tami's Soaphie and has been doing well ever since.

I felt compelled to share that with you as dry eye syndrome is relatively common in diabetic dogs.

Pam

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

..thanks Pam ..went to vet this morning (my usual vet back) and now he is testing monty for Cushings disease, so will read up on that if it comes back positive. I mentioned the opthalmologist again and he said the only thing he could do was surgery and we definately could not afford it.

.eye drops...i gave him the list that Tami advised and half the products are not available in NZ and the others are just way to expensive. so I went to the local pharmacy and brought some human drops for dry eyes and will see how we go. Have kept the other drops just in case he gets really bad.

..but the really good thing is that his blood sugars are great.