Bailey got his wings... June 26, 2014

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Yes it was kind of scary, trouble with the Internet is there is TOO much information out there!

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Geoff, I am having a hard time taking in the numbers because I keep coming up with questions. I know it can be hard to think of all the things we will want to know.
* I am assuming you feed him at the 9am test time? Do you also feed at 9pm? Do you take a test before feeding? Geeting both of those is pretty important.

* What was his dose on each of these curves?

* I think you had a urinalysis done the last time you posted? I'm not sure if when then is an infection if the bgs would be persistently high or not as his numbers do come down.

Hope someone else can offer some insight.....

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Hello, I always feed him around 8:30 in the morning and at exactly 8pm at night. His insulin is 12 units Protophane, I think that went up from 11units mid-July. I do not test him before food (I know I should) but Sunday morning with 2 little kids and breakfast time makes it hard, I am getting better at getting his blood though. I test him 10-mins after food so can't be that far off (can it?!?!)

Do people measure out the food they give their dogs? I simply use a 1/2 cup (give or take some bits of kibble) and some wet-food (tin) I do not measure it to the gram (ounce). Usually after exercise his blood sugar goes down but last night it was the same (slightly higher even) which is weird. He is not licking himself so am not certain if he has an infection or not, usually he licks a lot when he has an infection.

[CraigM]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Do people measure out the food they give their dogs? I simply use a 1/2 cup (give or take some bits of kibble) and some wet-food (tin) I do not measure it to the gram (ounce).

I do weigh Annie's food. 2.1 ounce. It might be my imagination, but less than 0.1 ounce seems to make a difference in Annie. Of course, every dog is different.

Testing 10 minutes after eating probably doesn't make a lot of difference, but when I was using only NPH ( think the same as protophane?), she would get a 100+ mg/dL (5.5mmol) rise in about an hour. Do us a favor and try a pre-meal test, and another test about 15 minutes later. It would set at minds to rest.

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

OK, I'll weigh a few to see if that makes any difference and I will get a pre-feed sample followed by another one 15 mins or so later.

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

To get the best handle on what is going on it would be great to have a true curve. That would mean things (food, timing, and shot) being as consistent as possible for three days prior to the curve. Then testing before food and injection and every 2 hrs. after that until the evening meal.

On the food, yes weigh...or not weighing can make a difference.

My Ruby does get a big food rise due to some prescription enzymes she has to take. I use R or humalog to deal with that. You really want to have a well established pattern for that and it does take a lot of testing.

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

I always feed him around the same time, give or take 10 mins. I always feed him the same food and amounts, but I will weigh tonight and make some notes for my wife. Nothing else really changes, I walk him exactly the same route every night (except tonight my wife is out). I always test every two hours also, again give or take a few mins, it's hard to be home the whole day, but pretty close.

[Shellie]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

On that ketone issue...they CAN be scary! I never knew about them before Hank was diagnosed and sadly...THAT'S what ended up landing him in the hospital for four days at diagnosis. I had a very vague idea about the diabetes in the back of my mind with the peeing, etc but never knew that high bg would be so deadly! So I was pretty shocked to find out that is what nearly killed Hank. It's one of the few things in diabetes other that can kill them so quickly. Even hypo takes a bit more time.

My whole point is that I would get the sticks and test. It's not something to panic over but with higher levels, ketones can come so it's best to be watchful. Just one more thing to do for our kids, huh?

[Judi]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

either Patty or Natalie explained once that if a dog is still using his insulin, exercise will make blood sugar drop. If he has used up his insulin and is out, exercise can make blood sugar rise.

Since you walk him at the same time every day maybe his insulin just didn't absorb as well yesterday? I definitely see a difference if I inject Jenny in the scruff vs. along her flank. Less effective.

Or, how old is your insulin? could it be losing it's oomph?

You guys have come so far, isn't it amazing that you can keep an eye on him like you do now? Judi

[Patty]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Goeff,
Is this still what he's eating?
"I feed him Science Diet Mature Adult 7+ and Supercoat dry food"

Purina Supercoat:
http://pets.purina.com.au/supercoat/...ult_Large.aspx
Ingredients

Meat and meat by-products (from chicken and/or beef), wholegrain cereals (wheat and/or sorghum), cereal bran and/or other cereals, beet pulp, iodised salt, vitamins (A, D, E, K, B1, B6, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid, choline, biotin, B12) and trace minerals (iron, zinc, copper, manganese), mixed natural tocopherols (vitamin E), rosemary plant extract, lutein, whole linseeds, garlic and kelp.

Science Diet Mature Adult 7+ tinned food:
Ingredients
Water, Beef, Barley, Corn Meal, Liver, Dried Whey, Natural Flavor, Animal Fat, Dried Beet Pulp, Vegetable Oil, Corn Gluten Meal, Fish Meal, Taurine, Minerals (Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Iron Oxide, Iodized Salt, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement).


http://www.petfooddirect.com/product...anned-Dog-Food

I wonder if a food change from the Purina Supercoat would help. The cereals, particularly the sorghum could be potential problems causing the initial spike. Then the dose of insulin required to bring him down may be stronger than the food in the afternoon causing those lower points until it finally runs out and creates the rise again.

If you've been using Science Diet, there are people that have been using Science Diet Lite dry dog food as it closely matches w/d for the fiber, etc. There are other foods as well that seem to match up well like Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight.

I also think weighing out the food is a great idea for consistency.

Patty

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Hello Patty, thanks so much! I have been wondering this myself for months now but am hesitant to change his diet. However, I might try changing him to this:

http://www.hillspet.com.au/en-au/pro...bites-dry.html

I still want him on mature adult food (10th birthday on the 15th Sept!!)
And my local pet store sells it

http://www.petbarn.com.au/dogs/dog-f...-food-3kg.html

So I might ween him on/off and see how I go! As for insulin, it's fresh, I keep it for around 35 days or so which is only 7 days beyond 4 weeks so...?!

And yes Judi, it is amazing, I can get a drop in under a minute or so now (unless his bum is cold from been outside!) but yes, it's a huge relief for me, huge stress too but still more relief!! :-) Thanks.

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Glad you have something you can try Geoff. Diet isn't my thing as I can't alter Ruby's much due to other diseases. but it did feel like something was't balanced and I think a change along those lines could make a big difference.
When I was successful at switching to a lower carb food I did have to lower the insulin so you'll want to keep an eye on that.

I'll look forward to your progress. Wish you luck.

[Patty]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Geoff,
One of the things you may run into is not enough fiber with the mature adult small bites. The w/d and Lite and foods like Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight seem to match the action of protaphane insulin better because of the increased fiber. Just something to consider.
Patty

http://www.hillspet.com.au/en-au/pro...bites-dry.html
Protein 19.5
Fat 15.5
Carbohydrate (NFE) 56.7
Crude Fiber 3.6

http://www.hillspet.com.au/en-au/en-...ne-wd-dry.html
Protein 19.2
Fat 8.7
Carbohydrate (NFE) 50.8
Crude Fibre 16.4
Soluble Fibre 1.3
Insoluble Fibre 28.1

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Patty, great but do you know if you can get this in Australia?? I am Googling now....!

Is this it?

http://www.pet-shop.net.au/buy/blue-...lt_Dogs_-_30lb

FYI Bailey is around 12 Kilo's (26.45 pounds) and is almost ten so I want something lighter for him as he is less active now (from being blind mostly)

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Actually I already bought a bag of the small bites from Science Diet and, contrary to the website, the nutrition is as follows (on the bag)
rude Protein min 16%
Crude Fat min 12%
Crude Fiber min 5% as opposed to Buffalo at 7% and supercoat at 4%.