Need advice about Katie

[katiesmommy]

Katie is a red healer
12 yrs old
Aprox 55 lbs
Diagnosed 2/11/14 (symtoms excessive drinking and accidents in house, heavy panting)
Novilin N 6 units first week, now at 7 units
Home testing with relion meter
No other known health issues

I have been reading here and found a wealth of information its been so helpful. I hope I am doing this post right Ive never done this before. I tryed to give the info that is always asked for at the top. My question is about katie's readings. Im concerned because she doesnt seem to reacting like she should to the isulin. Im not getting a curve like everyone describes. Here is a list of yesterday and todays readings.

2/17
7AM 321-food and shot
10AM 375
1PM 422
3PM 286
5PM 283
7PM 281-food and shot
9PM 294
11PM 292
2/18
3AM 349
7AM 291-food and shot
8AM 311
9AM 288
11AM 344
12PM 346
2PM 346
4PM 346
7PM 304 food and shot

Seems like she goes up and down quite a lot. Have numbers all the way back to day one and same thing. Her numbers have never dropped below 270s but were as high as 600 in the beginning. I am confused as what to do from here. You all seem so knowledgeable I am looking forward to your help. Thank you so much!

[jesse girl]

Re: katie new here need help

hi and welcome

i think the curve is pretty good being so new to diabetes. fairly flat for most of the curve and within a 100 points from low to high for most of the time . which i consider anything a 100 points or lower is stable blood sugar

no big drops slow steady declines

you may have an opportunity to raise the dose probably no more than a unit. then another curve next week and reevaluate

congrats on the 24 hour curve . your doing great

[Auddog]

Re: katie new here need help

Hi there!

Welcome to the forum! I totally agree with Jesse Girl, so far so good especially being diagnosed only 7 days ago. When Bazzle and I first started home testing, we found he would have 150 to 250 point differences between his highs and lows. It usually takes quite a while to get their numbers down, so it's important to remember that patients is the key.

People meters tend to read dog blood a bit low, which leads me to this one question. Are the numbers you posted exactly what the meter said, or are they tweeked?

...

Ok, actually I have another question (lol, sorry). You said she was started on 6 units, but then it was upped to 7. How long has Katie been on 7 units?

It usually takes a few days for changes to settle in our pup's systems. Whenever I make a change to Bazzle (be it insulin dose or food amount / time), I don't see a clear pattern change in his numbers for at least 3 days and then I usually run a curve 7 to 10 days after said change (giving it plenty of time to settle). So if she was just recently switched to 7 units she still might be getting used to it. By the way, if you don't mind me asking yet another question, what is she eating & how much? (That one's more out of curiosity than anything else.

You are off to a great start!! Glad you found us, we're here for you, and again, welcome to the forum

Audrey & Bazzle

[k9diabetes]

Re: katie new here need help

Actually, there's a lot to like about this curve. Especially how relatively flat it is. And she's responding well to the insulin given that her blood sugar is already hitting the 200s.



The "books" all show a shallow bowl for the shape of a curve, but in reality, curves come in all kinds of shapes - bowls, mountains, double hump camels.

Katie has a mountain shape generally but a very mild one. And mountain shaped curves are nice because lowest blood sugar generally occurs at meal time, making it pretty easy to monitor. The insulin dose always has to be based on how LOW the blood sugar goes, not on how high.

She will likely need a little more insulin but you want to hold for a while at each dose (a minimum of five days and often longer) to be sure you're seeing the long-term reaction, especially when newly diagnosed.

I don't care what shape the curve is. I'm only interested in how and high and how low the blood sugar goes. If I had a dog whose blood sugar had six bumps/dips in 12 hours but all of the readings were between 120 and 200, I'd be thrilled.

Natalie

[katiesmommy]

Re: katie new here need help

Thank you all. Now I feel so much better. To answer questions yes the meter readings are exactly as the meter read. She has been on 7 units for 3 days today. My vet had told me to up by 1 unit after three days if she was dark on urine strips. I told vet that I wanted to do BG testing at home (she was ok with that but didnt think Katie would tolerate) so she said the goal was 200. She was not specific on when that number should happen.
Katie is eating 1 &1/2 cups of nutrisca low glycemic and 5 oz of wet (all meat)
She still seems to be not her usual self. She wants to sleep a lot and not her hyper healer self. Her hind legs/hips seem to be bothering her. Should I be alarmed? Is that part of all this?
Again many thank yous!

[k9diabetes]

Re: katie new here need help

Dogs can have a form of diabetic neuropathy if (1) their blood sugar has been really high for a long time, or (2) they already have some impaired communication over the spinal cord and the layering over of excess blood sugar is enough to push them over into showing signs of neuropathy.

Do they primarily seem to be weak or does she seem to be in pain?

Diabetic neuropathy typically shows up as weakness in the back legs. If it seems painful, then I'd consider other causes. On rare occasions an allergy to a food or insulin product can cause pain and stiffness.

Natalie

[katiesmommy]

Re: katie new here need help

I was thinking maybe arthritis? Its really hard to tell if shes in pain. But she is slow to get up, hesitates before jumping, and seems to go up/down stairs carefully. She doesnt like to sit she lays down instead. She seems dumpy in general.
Being a cattle dog she has always been the kind of dog to go until she literally can not go anymore and has never shown pain even when injured.

I am so relieved to hear that her numbers arent horrible like I thought. Shes been such a good girl all her life and keeping true to her wonderful self she is handling all this like a champ. She just lays down and holds her leg up so I can get her readings. Im using her elbow pads that seems to be the best place for her.
I will keep everything the same for the rest of this week and then do another complete curve and see if things are the same.

[Eddie]

Re: katie new here need help

One way to try to work out if it is neuropathy or a pain-related problem is to ask the vet to give her a painkiller. We did this when our dog had neuropathy and the painkiller made no difference at all so we knew it was not pain.

The neuropathy seemed to make his back legs and tail numb so he could not use them. An odd thing was that he would end up lying on his tail in a funny way that he would never normally do- I think because he couldn't feel (or control) it.

She may also be feeling poorly because of the higher blood sugar levels, not just because of her legs. When first diagnosed our dog slept almost the whole time except for toileting and eating (when we had to support him to stand as his legs were so bad). I think he just decided to sleep until he felt better again.

The good thing is that if it is all relates to the diabetes, it should go away gradually as you get her better regulated. Our dog's legs and activity levels are back to normal now.

It looks as if you are doing really well in getting a grip on this and it's still very early days for your girl.

Antonia

[Monsters Momma]

Re: katie new here need help

Wow! Only 8 days and you've done a full curve!? You have shamed me!! I feel I need to do this now!

I think you're doing great! Katie just needs time to let her body adjust. At first Vinny didn't act himself, as you said , kind of dumpy in general. Others may be able to address this better, but I think it's just a general not feeling well. It took some time for Vinny to want to play with our younger dog, Bogey. Eight months into this with several changes and he's acting like a pup again and he's Lmost 8 years old!

You are doing great! You have found a great place for help! Welcome to you both!
Mel

[katiesmommy]

Re: katie new here need help

Thank you for all the warm welcomes and replies.
Antonia I will ask vet for pain meds and see if that seems to help. Thank you for that idea.
Mel all the credit goes to my girl she is sooo patient with me. She just lays there and lets me poke and prod. Also I wouldnt have even known were to start without finding this forum. I have learmed so much from just reading all the stories here. I settled on the elbo pads because she hates anything done in or near her mouth so the lip was out and shes too furry to use tail or ears.

Katie seems a bit more chipper this morning. Her numbers are back up a bit 402 last night at bed time and 304 this morning pre breakfast and food.

Kristi-katies mommy

[katiesmommy]

Re: katie new here need help

I have another question. I know every 12 hours with food and shot is very important. I am going to have a huge problem this weekend. I work 13 hours a day over the weekend. Totaling at least 14 hours away from home. HELP.... what do I do? No one will be home to help this weekend. I thought about taking her with me but I dont think she will eat in the car. Mornings will be an hour earlier than usual and evenings will be an hour or possibly even two later. How do I do this? I dont want to mess up the progress we have made so far. Any suggestions would be a big help. Thank you again.

[jesse girl]

Re: katie new here need help

an hour late or early seems to work ok for most

on the early shot you might want to reduce the dose a bit but depends how low at fasting. if its close to normal you maybe able to give full dose

[Monsters Momma]

Re: katie new here need help

I have another question. I know every 12 hours with food and shot is very important. I am going to have a huge problem this weekend. I work 13 hours a day over the weekend. Totaling at least 14 hours away from home. HELP.... what do I do? No one will be home to help this weekend. I thought about taking her with me but I dont think she will eat in the car. Mornings will be an hour earlier than usual and evenings will be an hour or possibly even two later. How do I do this? I dont want to mess up the progress we have made so far. Any suggestions would be a big help. Thank you again.

You know, Vinny has made it 14 hours before...although he let us know right as we walked in he was not happy with us for making him wait! It's best to keep it to 12-13, but I don't think there's any great harm in a 'once in awhile' thing.

Can you take her with you? Maybe not feeding her in the car, but feeding before you leave each place might cut 14 down to 13?

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: katie new here need help

I, ve slept in twice this past winter and gave his full shot. He gets it at 11 but had to give it at 1 thats 14 hours. He was okay. When I have to go out an hour earlier he still gets his full dose.

I think as long as its a temorary schedule change you should be okay at 14 hours.

[parje1]

Re: katie new here need help

Hi and welcome

My dog, Mia, was diagnosed a month ago. She has experienced lots of back leg weakness. Some days she is stronger than other days. She was very active before. She will not jump and she will only go down stairs but not up. She prefers to lay down even when eating. We're still working on regulating her but I've noticed the days when her glucose is over 400, it's worse. Hang in there. I've found this group to be very supportive and informative.

I am totally impressed you are already testing. We started testing at home just recently.

-Jen