Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

[MisterAlan]

Thanks for all your help Jesse I really appreciate this a lot. I have a question about diets for diabetic dogs. As you know he has weak hind legs and it seems to be getting weaker. I would like to know are their certain meats they can’t eat because I don’t want him losing muscle mass as we are trial and error if our way to see if we can get some mobility back too him. My vet doesn’t think it’s degenrative muscle lose because it came on so suddenly and it was accompanied with finding out he has diabetes. Currently I’m looking into this b12 and fish oils as supplements for him. And I’ve read they just pee out the excess if I give them too much so that’s a bit of a relief. I already know he’s getting old and illnesses seem to be coming out of the wood works but if I can get his mobility back ASAP with diets meds and voodoo magic I’d most likely try it as long as he isn’t in pain. My glucose meter comes in Thursday so I might start testing out meals high in proteins and how they will react to his insulin because he is turning into a very picky eater all of a sudden. Because he use to eat anything and everything we fed him even if it was just dog food. I also read animal organs were good choices of food for dogs too because they are very high in nutrition. As far as balancing his meals I’m going to have to do more research but I do know protein is the major player for senior dogs it’s just diabetes makes it a pain regulating. Again thank you for your help and experience transference to people looking for help. Also it seems he changed sleeping schedules on me and turned restless at night so I’m looking into that if he is turning into like a dementia state as he ages at the moment he was whining I stopped that now he is licking his legs a lot and I’m trying to get him to stop that till I get him back on routine. Boy will we be on an adventure but I’m sad to say after I seen him lately with his lose of mobility and not able to eat, I’m going through a grieving stage already knowing what choice I will have to make if he can’t get his quality of life back because my elderly parents won’t be able to take care of this big boy when I’m at work or school. But I will try to be active and positive till I see that he just isn’t the same anymore because he’s losing that happiness I use to see in him. He is very alert and happy when it’s dinner time because he use to get scraps but now he can’t. And it’s sad to turn him down and seeing his dejected look.

[jesse girl]

Your a positive person and that can be very helpful as the little things will motivate you . High protein diets dont work well for diabetics . I actually did a raw diet for jesse in the beginning and It did not work well for her digestion and regulation of her diabetes . Usually they need a balanced diet and that includes carbs . Actually the high meat diets are hard on the organs to digest and maybe harder for senior dogs . Its amazing how we can get completely opposite information on the subject . All I can tell you is what I see in jesse and high protein meat diets did not work well for her . Balance is the key and grains can be part of that equation and why the prescription diets work for blood sugar but they are not very appetizing

The best thing to get mobility back is decent blood sugar . Now it doesn't need to look like anything close to normal for a dog to do well . Members who's dog had weakness it wasn't a fast return to normal but gradual but my theory the earlier you can improve sugar than maybe it can return quicker . Yes the methyl b-12 can be given in higher doses with no negative affects as like you said they pee it out

My Jesse is a senior dog and has similar problems to your guy and thats ok . As long as they are happy . Dogs usually dont care about getting old .

Your off to a good start . Testing sugar at home will be a great help to get your dog regulated . As far as food find a balanced diet that your dog is interested in eating because as dogs get older appetite decreases . My jesse only gets one meal a day so that is an option for dogs who wont eat 2 or it is just a battle to do so . There is flexibility in treating the disease as long as you keep it consistent. With your dog you kind of have to find your own path on managing the disease as each dog has their own unique set of challenges .

[Riliey and Mo]

the best diabetic senior dog foods out there can be found at dogfoodadvisor.com
2 ilike are Natural balance lamb grain free and Merricks grain free senior.
i fed Riles the Merrick canned grain free and he gobbled it up.
read the manufacturers feed guide according to your dogs weight divide it by 2 and feed twice a day .
its better to buy a glucose meter. strips to test at fasting before your dog eats.
this home testing is crucial to take control of your dogs diabetes.
i have seen here alot of dogs with rear end issues revover nicely once they start a good regulation.
also ckeck out your local dog food store.

[MisterAlan]

Whelp it seems i hit clouds point where he refuses to eat the premade diabetes dog diets ive set out for him and is only interested in home cooked foods. Ive started to scour the internet for recipes and how they balance it out so i really have only this option to get the guy to eat. I found one site and was wondering what you take is on it if you have time to read some of it.
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdj...considerations
But yeah ive given him b-12 Methyl today and see how that goes as long as i have him on it. His legs seem to be getting worse and its sad seeing him like this. He seems extremly alert when its human dinner time or when hes slept enough for the moment but he is testing my patience with feeding him since i know he will eat, just not the food i buy but the food humans eat. As far as not eating my vet told me to give him 3 units instead of 7 since his BG will still go up but if he refuses again i should bring him in. I doubt my dog can hit low BG since it seems hes on such a low dose of insulin already and he is somewhat still energized but just lazing about due to the pain meds kicking in. I didnt see any stories about if other people had rear end problems for their dogs and it got worse then got better later on. If there is does anyone know when its gone beyond the point to if he can get some mobility back? Thank you again guys.

[k9diabetes]

The challenge with his mobility is whether it's the high blood sugar that's entirely the cause, partly the cause, or not related.

Usually, diabetic neuropathy shows up only in two situations - very very high blood sugar for an extended period of time OR moderately high blood sugar that coincides with a problem with the back legs unrelated to the blood sugar.

So getting his blood sugar down will help whatever part of it is related to that.

But it's quite possible that there are other issues going on as well.

Not sure where you are located but I recommended a one-time consult with a veterinary neurologist if there is one reasonably close to you.

A veterinary neurologist can look at exactly what is and isn't happening with your dog's mobility and do some simple tests of reflexes, etc. and pinpoint likely diagnoses and where the problem is occurring.

It makes a huge difference. So, for example, diabetic neuropathy is almost almost exhibited as weakness only in the rear legs and equally weak on both sides. If there is weakness in the front legs or if one rear leg is weak and the other one is basically okay, that points away from diabetic neuropathy.

Front leg weakness indicates that the problem in the spinal cord is much further forward, such in the neck or shoulders.

Sometimes they can tell if it's likely something in the spine itself or a tumor in the brain. There are a few diseases that could be present, such as degenerative myelopathy. That doesn't get better unfortunately.

So just a consult can tell you a lot and can often pinpoint the problem or at least eliminate some things without any further imaging.

Definitely worth the investment if you can get in to a good canine neurologist.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Looks like there's a neurology practice pretty close to you. (I can see your IP address but no one else can.)

I can't overstate how useful a veterinary neurology consult can be. They can tell so much more than a general practitioner vet and conduct tests that GP vets don't do. I've had two dogs treated by a neurologist, including our diabetic. His loss of ability to stand turned out to most likely be a mini stroke as he recovered within a few hours. The dog we have now has spinal and hip pain and we had him fully worked up including MRI.

Natalie

[MisterAlan]

Yeah sadly i am financially not able to provide for his mri scan at the moment so i asked for a consult from one of their surgeons and he suggested intervertebraldisc disease, infection of the discs, my main vet had a talk with the surgeon and we are putting him on pain meds and antibiotics at the moment to keep him comfortable and go from there. But sadly without a scan we wont know for sure After dinner tonight and about an hour later it seems he can move pretty steadly again just needs help lifting but no need for me to carry him. my house has alot of laminate flooring so im making use of what rugs and foam mats i have at the moment to help him move around but it seems he struggles with his front legs when there isnt steady mats for him to grip on so i plan on buying alot more tomorrow and just lay them everywhere he normally goes. As far as his back legs it seems it is only his back legs that are weak and it seems it is weak equally from what i observe he is front heavy so i think he sometimes struggles in the front due to the sudden change in mobility his front muscles arnt use to it but this is all guessing from what i can observe so far. It has only been a week since all this happened and ive seen ups and downs so far i will do my best to keep him comfy for the time being.

[k9diabetes]

Boots with rubber grippy bottoms can also help with slick floors.

[sibhus]

MisterAlan, im also dealing with a diabetic husky whom is overweight and also has some hind leg issues. In his case, he has some joint inflammation in his leg which if I don't treat using a NSAID daily he tends to rise about 150 points due to the residual pain in his body. My dog is overweight at 87lbs and is using 10 units in the morning(has a snack) and 30 at night but that is due to he eats his entire meal at night which is around 1100 calories. In my case, since my dog is overweight this contributes to insulin resistance but your dosage sounds very low.

You might be dealing with inflammation or arthritis, although as others have noted it could be nerve related and perhaps an X-ray can isolate this as its usually cheaper. As someone stated methyl B12 can help with diabetic neuropathy and is cheap. But the older and heavy dogs develop joint paint/inflammation easily as in my case and as a result im using light doses of Galliprant until he can shed his weight off. A good vet can palpate and manipulate the joints and pickup on arthritis or a joint issue. An orthopedic vet might be a better choice than a vet.

Good luck and hang in there, its been a tough month for me as we were diagnosed last month but im finally getting my husky under reasonable control.

[MisterAlan]

Thank you sibhus i greatly appreciate your input since we have similar situations. Yeah i also think his doses are low it seems my dog has climbed back up to the 480s and 500s but my doctor said to increase his units from 7 to 8 units and see how it goes. I did notice that when his BG was controlled when he arrived home at the 100s he could still walk around but very weak now it seems i need to always help him up but he tries to waddle with his back legs but they wont support. Currently i would never thought i would have a problem feeding him and not having problems poking the crap out of him with needles and he simply doesn't care haha. Yes he is on galliprant at the moment along with tramadol so we can assume hes not in pain with all those pain killers in him. It seems as his BG rises he starts to pant a little more. At the moment he seems extremely whiny at nights so ive tested if its pain it turns out its not. And hes testing me how i react to certain things he does to get my attention. It seems it is anxiety but i dont know what triggers it but so far ive left the room for 1 hour last night and see what he would do and seems hed just fall right to sleep until he hits another panic attack anxiety. The problem with the whining and getting up on sitting mode i assume he wants to go outside to do his thing but it seems he wants the attention of me to lift him up to walk around in the room a lil and repeat. I dont mind but it will confuse me when i dont know when he has to go or when he wants attention because i cant feed him the attention or he will use it against me and it will only get worse. But its only been a week so far and Ive actually found myself quite comfortable giving him shots taking his BGs and taking him out to relieve himself which is a bit crazy because of the towel i use to support sometimes it either covers him or causes the aimer to go everywhere and i have to wipe him down lol. Waiting on that old dog harness helper to ship in and i think it will be much easier to handle his restroom breaks also i can just pick him up if i have to if he doesn't wanna go before bed time because he will literally hold it for 10 hours plus because he doesn't wanna move. Well that's it for now wish me luck that i don't have to increase his insulin too much because i might have to change to vetsulin to novalin at Walmart and my vet is open to those options but she would rather keep him on vetsulin if it regulates well since its made for pets but sometimes you just cant sustain it. Also Natalie thanks for finding me a neuro practice for me i will look into it and plan out my options to see what i can get done for the guy.