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  #11  
Old 04-14-2009, 03:09 PM
Kwiggles Kwiggles is offline
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Default Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Susy,

My vet and I arranged that he will call me on Friday (day 6 of loading) if I don't call him before that to tell him Joe has shown signs of loading being complete. We'll talk then about how to proceed. He's been great about making himself available to talk to during this process.

Forgot to say last time- thanks to whomever (Scott, maybe?) moved my post and started a new thread for me- much easier this way.

And thanks, yes, i do have a printed copy of the loading instructions (by some miracle I was inspired to print it out last Friday right before the Cushings site went away- phew) Also have some very thorough guidelines from my vet and have the Pred standing by in case Joe needs it, so I guess we are good to go.
I'll be sure to relate to Joe all the good vibes coming his way- thanks folks, I'll keep you posted.

Karen & Joe
  #12  
Old 04-14-2009, 06:10 PM
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LuvMyMunchie LuvMyMunchie is offline
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Default Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

Just thought I'd drop in and see how Joe (and you) are doing. Sounds like you've got everything well covered with the Lysodren loading info, the pred on hand and a communication line open with your vet.

Glad Joe is feeling well and look forward to your updates on his progress.

Louise

P.S. Is Joe still going to do his rendition of the other Cocker's "Feeling Alright" when loading is completed???

Louise
  #13  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:22 PM
Kwiggles Kwiggles is offline
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Default Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hello again all, just checking in:

We are now on Day 4 of loading and everything seems to be proceeding well. No change in Joe's appetite or eating habits so far (still voracious) but looks like he is just starting to back off on the water consumption a little- down from 3000 ml to around 2400 per day. Is it supposed to gradually taper off like this or is the decrease generally more dramatic?

Last night, I was going through some notes I had written down from my online research and came across the following quote (regarding Lysodren treatment):

"90% of dogs with pituitary Cushings load on days 5,6,7 or 8."

Don't know where I got that from, but can anyone comment on that? When I asked my vet when can I expect to see that Joe is loaded, he talked about how every dog is unique, etc, but that he has never had a dog load by day 3 and rarely before day 5. And with Joe there's the complicating factor that we're still not sure whether his problem is pituitary or adrenal.

Tomorrow is day 5 so I will plan to be especially attentive. (*sigh*, I will be so glad when this is done and we can relax a little....)

And yes Louise, Joe and I will be doing the happy doggie dance to the tune of 'Feelin Alright' (and breathing a big sigh of relief) when loading is complete
  #14  
Old 04-15-2009, 03:45 PM
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ventilate ventilate is offline
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Default Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

My dog loaded in 4 days and I know of many that have loaded that fast or even faster. It seems that large dogs load faster, Nike was about 90 lbs when we started. Your vet is correct all dogs are different and there is no way to know how long it will take, some take a very long time. I think Kim did a reload that took close to a month or it seems like it did, I know it was very long and she holds the reloading record.
It seems that most dogs do load around 5 days, my vet had me start on thurs as he did not work mondays and said that Nike should load when he was working, well it didnt quite work that way. So I would really start to watch close, It is probably close. Nike left a few kibble for her boyfriend and did not wake me up the night before to go out to pee, she had not done either in a very long time, so I knew that was the sign I as waiting for. I was told to give 1/2 the food and if they ate it all as they had before, give the meds, so i gave her the meds then she left the few kibble and she should not have had that dose and had I of waited till she was done her meal I would not have given the meds to her so be sure you are giving the meds AFTER you watch Kwiggle eat the entire meal then give the meds followed by a bit more food or treat to be sure the med moves down into the stomach. If in doubt dont give the meds remember once it is given you cant take it back, and your gut is usually right.
Good luck and keep watching and you will see
Sharon, Nike and Kenai
  #15  
Old 04-15-2009, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

You are doing a great job watching Joe and I'm sure you will notice that "hmmmm" moment.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls
  #16  
Old 04-17-2009, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,
Not to worry you, but my dog loaded in 3 days and I now think he didn't show any signs. His water consumption went down to the targeted number, but his water consumption varies alot and he had hit that number on occasion before he ever started lysodren. The temperature outside had dropped significantly that day and I wasn't sure at the time if the decrease in water consumption was due to the weather or due to the Lysodren load. Since I wasn't sure, as they say here..."if in doubt, stop loading" and that's what I did. He stimmed nicely afterwards and I think it was just dumb luck - because I now believe the drop in water consumption had to do with the weather, meaning there was no sign. Since then, his water consumption has varied by as much as 6 cups!

Also, my dog has always had a good appetite (I got him when he was 2-1/2y.o.). From what I know of my dog, he has to been incredibly ill for his appetite to slow down or stop. If you believe Joe's appetite has increased with the onset of Cushing's, great; but if Joe is like Wylie, had the appetite well before Cushing's, I wouldn't be too suprised if you don't see early signs of being loaded. This is why I asked if you had plans of stopping at a pre-determined point. I don't think your situation would be similar to mine on two points: 1) Wylie was 76 lbs when we loaded and as Sharon had said, bigger dogs generally load quicker and 2) Wylie's loading dose was about 43mg/kg. So for these two reasons, Joe would probably take longer to load.

Is Joe's cushing's pituitary or adreanal?

-Susy
  #17  
Old 04-17-2009, 03:02 PM
Kwiggles Kwiggles is offline
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Default Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hello everybody, I'm feeling in need of a bit of hand-holding here :

Joe is now on Day 6 of loading and I am getting a bit anxious. My instructions from the vet are: if he shows signs of loading being complete, I am to stop Lysodren immediately and call the vet. If no signs, I am to continue with the Lysodren through day 8 (Sunday), then stop and bring him in for testing.

I spoke to the vet today and questioned him closely about the water consumption (Joe has dropped only very slightly from around 3000 ml/day to around 2400 ml/day). He said that is not a reliable indicator as many dogs' drinking stays high and continues to drop slowly even after loading is complete. He said appetite is the more reliable indicator.

As Susy said with her dog, Joe has always (even way before Cushings) had a big appetite, always been a fast eater and always cleaned his plate completely. This morning he paused mid-meal to swallow and lick his lips- he does that sometimes anyway, then he dove back in , finished the food, licked the bowl and looked around for more. Might 'the sign' be something as subtle as that? Right now I am starting to feel a bit wobbly in my confidence that I will know when is the right time.

Everyone says 'you will know' and I was sure I would, but now I'm questioning myself

(Susy, you asked if Joe's diagnosis is pituitary or adrenal- despite extensive testing, the answer to that is still ambiguous. Even an ultrasound was unable to clearly visualize both adrenals and the blood tests were borderline, but there is no question he has Cushings- The test results are detailed in my long post near the beginning of this thread.)

Another frustration for me is that my only computer access is here at work and I will be leaving in a few minutes. I will try to pop in over the weekend and see if anybody has any ideas or comments.

Thanks everybody for being there (& wish us luck)
Karen & Joe
  #18  
Old 04-17-2009, 03:07 PM
Kwiggles Kwiggles is offline
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Default Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi again- Susy, I meant to ask: Since it sounds like Wylie loaded in 3 days and showed no signs, did you have it pre-arranged with your vet to stop Lysodren after 3 days?
  #19  
Old 04-17-2009, 03:15 PM
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Squirt's Mom Squirt's Mom is offline
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Default Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

A golden rule around here when loading is, when it doubt, stop the Lyso and have the pup tested. As Sharon (I think) said, you can't take the pill back once it is given but skipping a dose or two won't cause a problem if Joe's test says he isn't quite loaded. So if you are concerned that the "look up and lip lick" mean something, stop and call for an ACTH.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls
  #20  
Old 04-17-2009, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

Since his water consumption had decreased - I wasn't sure at the time if it was due to the weather or due to the Lysodren load. Since I wasn't sure..."if in doubt, stop loading", so I stopped. Only afterwards, seeing more of his varied drinking levels, did I conclude that the lowered consumption for that particular day was probably not due to the Lyso.

Anyway, you have a doubt, so I would stop the dosing and get a stim, maybe on Monday. Lyso will keep working about 48 hours after the last dose - So I think it would be better to get a stim on Monday, not tomorrow, to get a true read.

-Susy

Last edited by Wylie's Mom; 04-17-2009 at 04:28 PM.
 

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