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  #11  
Old 04-16-2009, 05:48 PM
stardeb55 stardeb55 is offline
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Default Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

I'm afraid I have to agree with Angela on where you stand with Bagel. A post number of close to 9 is not going to come down much at all with a simple increase in the maintenance dose. I speak from experience with Harley as I have had to reload him 3x since his diagnosis a year ago. One of his stims prior to a reload showed a post of between 9-10, if memory serves, I had an IMS who insisted that this was ok as long as he was symptom free. Within a week or less, Harley started peeing all over the house, drinking tons of water, etc. I made several phone calls to the IMS over a period of 3 weeks insisting that something was wrong, & he needed to be seen. After 3 weeks, when they finally agreed that I needed to bring him in, his ACTH showed a post of >20. I, immediately, opted to reload at a higher dose.

It sounds like Bagel is already becoming symptomatic, so I am afraid you have a reload in your immediate future.

Debbie
  #12  
Old 04-16-2009, 05:58 PM
frijole frijole is offline
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Default Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagel's Mom View Post
Hey Leslie,

Her pre (after 4 weeks maintenance) was 7 her post was 8.8

he said between 1 and 5 was perfect

I swear I thought he said it wasn't really bad til 25?

Could I be nuts?

Hi! A possibility is that they were confused and not you! A normal dog's cortisol isn't considered high until 22. Once dx-ed with cushings the whole scale changes. That is because the levels have to be reduced and maintained at those levels (due to overproduction). Thats where the 1 to 5 level comes in. So probably they were thinking of normal level and not a cush dog's level.

My dog's levels went to 13 or so after a few weeks on maintenance and I remember the disappointment. Some dogs just take higher doses and longer to fully load and maintain. Its OK - you just do another load (same routine) and retest. We ended up increasing the dosage in order to accomplish that and to maintain it.

What is your vet suggesting?
  #13  
Old 04-17-2009, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

AT this point, he said increase the Lyso by 1/4 pill..
Which I did yesterday. No adverse effects at all this time and she even was playing with a toy which she hasn't done in many months.

I am wondering....The STIM test was Saturday and Weds she was dragging herself on the floor(wasn't the glands) and trying to pee on every blade of grass, so I took a small specimen in ...and she had a UTI.
I read that the Cort. levels can be high due to several things, one being a bacterial infection. So I am wondering if THAT could have made her test results high?
  #14  
Old 04-17-2009, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

OH..Yes he DID say to monitor her behaviors ( food and water intake) for a possible reload...

I HATE that since they wanted to do 8 days of loading and I KNOW she loaded at 6...
and they let me stop...but even her loading dose was high- (pre 4.2 and post 5.9)

oh well...we DO learn a LOT huh?
I am working on diet now...
I am feeding her canned chicken/rice/green beans and a sprinkle of holistic kibble...seems to agree well...
of to the showers. thanks everyone!!
  #15  
Old 04-17-2009, 06:13 AM
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Default Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Hi Sande,

What dose did you load with? I know you posted that information on cc.net but too bad I don't have a photographic memory.

Finding the right maintenance dose isn't always easy and hindsight is 20/20 and makes you go DOH! I believe part of the problem may be the once a week maintenance dosing. You are giving Bagel a huge dose in one day and that makes absolutely no sense to me. My dog's IM says no less than twice a week maintenance. We have split both Lulu's and Jojo's maintenance into thirds and dose on Mon, Wed & Fri.

I have an audio of a lecture given by Dr. Edward Feldman and he stresses to his students to never give once a week maintenance dose but rather split it up into as many days as you can. For instance, he would probably have you give Bagel 1/2 pill on Mon, Tue, Thur & Fri. It's rather odd that you had to beg your vet to split Bagel's maintenance dose. Has he had much experience in treating cushdogs?

Glynda
  #16  
Old 04-17-2009, 01:11 PM
stardeb55 stardeb55 is offline
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Default Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Sande, when you indicated that your vet was pretty set about only once a week maintenance dosing, I thought to myself that this was going to be an problem, but I realize you have to follow your vet's instructions. When Harley was first diagnosed, the IMS wanted him on twice weekly maintenance dosing. When I moved his Cushing's care back to my GP, the GP was pretty adamant that he wanted 3 times a week maintenance dosing. The GP felt that the more frequent dosing kept the blood levels of the lyso more uniform, & wouldn't allow the adrenals time to regenerate.

Debbie
  #17  
Old 04-17-2009, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Trying to remember everything in the last two posts...

She loaded at 1 and 3/4 per day...I think that is 875 mg? I am bad at metrics since I teach elementary school!..

He told me out of 90 Cush dogs treated, only 2 didn't make it ..

There are three vets there and they all follow what has proven best in their experiences I guess? The yare always gone to lectures and conventions to learn new stuff...

But when I asked about splitting the dose over several days he said he had never heard of that and "no"....

Being only a little over a month on here, I know you all continue to refer to Dr. Feldman. Is he a local person, or where do you get his name and his info? I did download his lecture on Cushings, but don't know who he is.

She is now taking 2 500 mg pills on Thursdays( 1000 mg) ...and the last stim was SAT when she got those numbers. BUT she did have a UTI a couple of days later which she could have had then when she was tested,,I am hoping that is why the numbers were up?

IF I decide to split her dosing...how would 1000 mg best be done....?
Just curious..
She IS feeling better and I can tell a difference in her in just a little over a month...
thanks!!
Sande
  #18  
Old 04-17-2009, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Bagel 1/2 pill on Mon, Tue, Thur & Fri.


Hmmmmm......Would that be morning or afternoon or would it matter?
AM THINKING......

She dosed on Thursday...

Sun Tues Thurs ???
  #19  
Old 04-17-2009, 03:27 PM
stardeb55 stardeb55 is offline
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Default Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

1/2 pill, 4x per week sounds like a good plan. Time of day that you dose doesn't matter, you just need to give with food which you already know. Dr. Edward Feldman is one of the foremost authorities on canine cushing's disease in the world. This link gives you just a little more info about Dr. Feldman. You could probably find more detailed information about him on the UC-Davis vet school website.

http://www.wvc.org/content/?c=42&id=19&dc=n

Debbie
  #20  
Old 04-17-2009, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

I dose my dogs in the morning because it's convenient.

Dr. Feldman is a professor at UC Davis. He is extremely well published, well known and lectures on cushing's and other endocrine disorders all over the world. If your vets go to conferences, seminars and lectures to keep current on cushing's, I would suggest that they attend one of Dr. Feldman's lectures. The audio I listened to was a 2007 lecture in Seattle. He has been treating dogs with Lysodren for over 36 years and knows it like the back of his hand. He was adamant and used the words "never, ever" give a dog once weekly dose unless you absolutely have to. The example he used was a dog getting 500 mg maintenance which should be spread out as 1/4 pill on Mon, Tues, Thurs & Fri. In addition the reasons that Debbie has given you for spreading over the week, it also makes it a lot easier to adjust a dose whether it be an increase of decrease. In Bagel's case, it would be 1/2 pill on Mon, Tues, Thurs & Fri.

Glynda
 

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