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  #1  
Old 06-23-2018, 05:16 AM
ReidWHopkins ReidWHopkins is offline
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Default Paxton's Journey

My MinPin mix (Paxton) was diagnosed with diabetes last December. He is a big MinPin, about 28 lbs when diagnosed. We have 2 vets since we travel between Alabama and Florida a lot. Our vet in FL prescribed 5 units of Vetsulin twice a day. His BG starts at ~400 and then drops slowly during the day, staying over 300 until the last reading is ~250 near feeding time. The next check showed the same trend, so the dose was upped to 6 units twice a day. After some more occasions of excess urination and thirst we upped to 8 units twice a day. In March of 2018 our original vet started a BG curve which showed exactly the same trend (starts at 400 drops slowly through 300s) until Paxton started to vomit, where she cut off the test in the early PM. She changed the dose to 15 units, twice a day (the dog only weighs 22.5 lbs now). Just had a new curve done in FL - same result. Starts at 400, drops slowly through the 300s. Last one didn't do a late (5 pm) test so it didn't quite reach 250s. This data seems to show resistance to Vetsulin in particular and maybe insulin in general. Vet wants to increase dose to 17 units twice a day. Don't know what to do!

I'll post a chart of his curves if someone will tell me how to post it - can't figure out what the URL would be for the chart since it is on my computer.

Last edited by ReidWHopkins; 06-23-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 06-23-2018, 05:53 AM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Paxton's Journey

Hi and welcome

Not sure if your vet took the dose from 8 to 15 if so that would be a very large increase at one time Especially for a 28 pound dog

You are seeing some movement lower so insulin is having some impact . I would test for things that may cause resistance like thyroid problems , High triglycerides and cholesterol . Has paxton had a full lab workup ?

Any other symptoms you are seeing . How is his stools and appetite ? Any stomach upset ?

I also had a theory that to much insulin in itself could cause some resistance . My jesse can only have no more than 3 units at a time . Anymore her blood sugar will spike and leave her with higher fastings . Maybe she has some reaction to the insulin

You might also consider a dose reduction and see if there is a change for the better . Are you testing blood sugar at home ?
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Jesse-26 lbs - 14 years old - 9 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:31 AM
ReidWHopkins ReidWHopkins is offline
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Default Re: Paxton's Journey

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse girl View Post
Hi and welcome

Not sure if your vet took the dose from 8 to 15 if so that would be a very large increase at one time Especially for a 28 pound dog

You are seeing some movement lower so insulin is having some impact . I would test for things that may cause resistance like thyroid problems , High triglycerides and cholesterol . Has paxton had a full lab workup ?

Any other symptoms you are seeing . How is his stools and appetite ? Any stomach upset ?

I also had a theory that to much insulin in itself could cause some resistance . My jesse can only have no more than 3 units at a time . Anymore her blood sugar will spike and leave her with higher fastings . Maybe she has some reaction to the insulin

You might also consider a dose reduction and see if there is a change for the better . Are you testing blood sugar at home ?
The increase from 8 to 12 took place in two parts. My AL vet did a spot Fructo test when we brought Paxton back home. He was taking 8 U, twice a day at that time; the reading was 521 - so she raised the dosage from 8 to 12 U, twice a day. BTW, Paxton has extreme separation anxiety, so we were trying to avoid the BG curve procedure since it always made him sick. The aborted BG test was done after 12 U dose. She stopped the test after he got sick and based on the results she had after the partial test, she increased to 15 units. We did another spot BG and Fructo test after that and it seemed to be better. The last test was done in FL and really didn't look that much different than other curves done with lower doses. I have read that stress increases the BG in the system, so maybe that is part of the reason that tests done by the Vet always seem high. We are going to test at home, but haven't got our equipment yet. Paxton is (or at least was) very hyper, giving him shots was very hard to begin with and involved much biting and scratching - better now with a different technique. But, that is why I didn't want to have to take blood for testing. Stools and appetite vary - mostly OK now Paxton has had normal lab workups, nothing special. Can you tell me how to post a .jpeg so i can put his BG charts online - i can't figure out what the URL would be since the chart is on my computer?
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:08 AM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Paxton's Journey

Yeah raising the dose based on a fructo test and maybe one blood test is not prudent if thats what your vet did moving to 12 . Stress hormones can elevate sugar at the vet and you may not be getting accurate normal reading in a non home environment . The problem is maybe you are raising the dose based on that elevated abnormal numbers . The problem with fructo tests for dogs is they can have such wild short swings from high to low and back up high and the tests just dont pick that up .

my jesse when in her early days after diagnosis would go from 500 down to 70 in a few hours and back up to 500 a few hours after that so if we tested at the 6 hour mark and thats all we did we would have just kept raising the dose

A 4 unit increase was to much to do at one time and its possible you passed the dose that was needed and i can tell you from experience if that has happened its difficult to find your way back because many dont want to go backwards but sometimes that what has to be done with no guarantees its the correct decision

Glad you will be testing at home . you may have to do allot of it to see if you can catch some lower trends . If rebounding is occurring numbers can stay elevated for days till the hormones decrease and sugar drops again
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Jesse-26 lbs - 14 years old - 9 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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  #5  
Old 06-23-2018, 12:03 PM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: Paxton's Journey

Good to see that you will be doing home BG testing.

I agree with jesse girl that his insulin increases may have been made in the wrong manner. The proper way to get to regulation is to do a 12 hour BG curve and based on the results, raise the dose in .5 or 1 unit increments, let the dose settle in for a week and repeat the process until his nadir(low Blood Glucose reading) gets to 150.

Fructosomine tests and spot BG tests should not be used to increase insulin. Increases should only be made based on the lowest reading in the 12 hour curve.

It’s possible that you have gone past his correct dose.

To post pictures or .jpg’s, you need to upload them to a free photo hosting web site like www.postimages.org and then copy and paste the link to the photo into your post.

As an alternative, our forum allows each user to upload 30 pictures via the forum User CP, located near the upper left corner of your screen. After you open the Control Panel, select Pictures and Albums, add an Album, then upload your pictures to the album. To imbed your picture in a post... open your picture, copy the picture’s BB Code, then paste into your post. You can select Preview Post to make sure it worked properly.
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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine

Last edited by MikeMurphy; 06-23-2018 at 12:10 PM.
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  #6  
Old 06-23-2018, 02:07 PM
ReidWHopkins ReidWHopkins is offline
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Default Re: Paxton's Journey

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMurphy View Post
Good to see that you will be doing home BG testing.

I agree with jesse girl that his insulin increases may have been made in the wrong manner. The proper way to get to regulation is to do a 12 hour BG curve and based on the results, raise the dose in .5 or 1 unit increments, let the dose settle in for a week and repeat the process until his nadir(low Blood Glucose reading) gets to 150.

Fructosomine tests and spot BG tests should not be used to increase insulin. Increases should only be made based on the lowest reading in the 12 hour curve.

It’s possible that you have gone past his correct dose.

To post pictures or .jpg’s, you need to upload them to a free photo hosting web site like www.postimages.org and then copy and paste the link to the photo into your post.

As an alternative, our forum allows each user to upload 30 pictures via the forum User CP, located near the upper left corner of your screen. After you open the Control Panel, select Pictures and Albums, add an Album, then upload your pictures to the album. To imbed your picture in a post... open your picture, copy the picture’s BB Code, then paste into your post. You can select Preview Post to make sure it worked properly.
Thanks, I would never have figured the upload thing without help. I guess the problem we had was that we were always moving between locations. Our FL Vet did the 5U and 6U but felt that we should be going higher. The AL vet saw Paxton again with a really high Fructo reading, so she was reacting to an emergency. No one really suspected insulin resistance. I went on this site pretty early, but didn't want to commit to my own testing because Paxton is (was) so hyper. Paxton's separation anxiety made it hard to get a decent reading at either place. I'm afraid now he is going blind!!
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2018, 03:12 AM
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Scooterspal Scooterspal is offline
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Default Re: Paxton's Journey

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReidWHopkins View Post
...I'm afraid now he is going blind!!
You might want to consider trying drops if he has signs of cataracts. Depending how far along (how large and how dense) they are the drops may hold them at bay and possibly, just possibly cause some reversal.

Google Lanomax. Buy direct from the company in California.

I'd also consider adding nutrients to help his eyes maintain good health. Check my signature for what I use with Scooter.

Have your vet check his eyes for glaucoma on the next visit. That needs to be controlled for any of this to work at all.
__________________
Diagnosed 9/15/17. A 17 lb. terrier mutt, 15 years old. My bestest friend. Novolin N 6U, Novolin R 3U, 2X/day. Cesar Classics 3.5 oz. packets w/ 4 tbsps of old fashion Quaker Oats, 2x day. Probiotic every 3 or 4 days. Omega 3, two 300 mg. capsules 1X/day for skin. Occuguard Plus, Billberry, Lutein, Vit E, Vit C every meal for eyes.

Last edited by Scooterspal; 06-24-2018 at 03:15 AM.
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2018, 03:34 AM
ReidWHopkins ReidWHopkins is offline
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Default Re: Paxton's Journey

Thanks to MikeMurphy I think I have figured out how to post a graph of Paxton's BG tests over the last 6 months.


Last edited by ReidWHopkins; 06-24-2018 at 03:35 AM. Reason: Trying to add image
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2018, 03:58 AM
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Scooterspal Scooterspal is offline
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Default Re: Paxton's Journey

If I'm reading this correctly, your pet is above 250 all the time. At that level cataracts are almost almost inevitable.
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Diagnosed 9/15/17. A 17 lb. terrier mutt, 15 years old. My bestest friend. Novolin N 6U, Novolin R 3U, 2X/day. Cesar Classics 3.5 oz. packets w/ 4 tbsps of old fashion Quaker Oats, 2x day. Probiotic every 3 or 4 days. Omega 3, two 300 mg. capsules 1X/day for skin. Occuguard Plus, Billberry, Lutein, Vit E, Vit C every meal for eyes.
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2018, 04:35 AM
ReidWHopkins ReidWHopkins is offline
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Default Re: Paxton's Journey

Yes, he doesn't seem to respond to Vetsulin at any level. I'm thinking of changing the type of insulin. BTW, Paxton has extreme separation anxiety, so these readings at the Vet may be high. I'm just getting setup to do my own BG readings.

Last edited by ReidWHopkins; 06-24-2018 at 04:39 AM. Reason: Added a thought.
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