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  #101  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:11 PM
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YukiesMom YukiesMom is offline
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Default Re: Diabetes, Cushings and Pancreatitis in my Dog

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to update you on Yukon's situation. I basically gave up on the Internal Medicine doctor because after the initial appointment I never dealt with her, always her assistant. It seemed like they just wanted to make money, not help my Yukon and did not address issues that needed to be addressed.

I did a STIM test with my regular vet to recheck all Yukon's Hormone levels and he still does not have elevated cortisol, and his other hormones got a little better. He does not have high estradiol anymore, only Androstenedione and 17OH Progesterone. I am hoping that is because I was treating with the flax hull lignans and melatonin. This is definitely Atypical Cushings.

Because I had to take him off the Melatonin due to possible insulin resistance, I started giving him the lignans twice a day about an hour after the insulin injection and I changed his food to Glycobalance.

The BG is going down from his over 500 - below is the curve I did yesterday:

6:00 a.m. 217 No Food - Just Waking Up
6:15 a.m. Food & 11 units Vetsulin
8:15 a.m. 368
10:20 a.m. 370
12:30 p.m. 305
2:20 p.m. 306
4:20 p.m. 346
6:00 p.m. 258
6:15 p.m. Food & 11 units Vetsulin
9:00 p.m. 457

It is getting better, but I am just wondering if I should increase the dosage or try a different insulin.

Any suggestions? My vet seems to think that 11 units is a lot for him, but I thought it was 1/2 cc per pound so at 30 pounds it could go up to 15 units.

Thanks,
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14 yr old, Atypical Cushings, Pancreatitis, Allergies. 12u Vetsulin 2x a day. Royal Canin Hydrolized Protein and Glycobalance equal mix 1 cup 2x Day. Snacks Green Beans/Boiled Chicken. Tylan Powder, Purina FortiFlora, Flax Hull Lignans 35mg 1x day.
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  #102  
Old 01-13-2019, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Diabetes, Cushings and Pancreatitis in my Dog

Definitely a big improvement in the curve

If the big spike after food and insulin is consistent you maybe able to add a fast or short acting insulin to slow it down a bit but the key word is consistent so you might want to hold the dose and let it settle for a bit longer before trying . Plus you have done a food change so that may lead you to hold for the dose for a bit longer to see what impact that will have

The other possibility is raising the dose maybe a half unit and see if that has an affect .

As far as changing insulin's there are only a few that have worked fairly well in dogs which is vetsulin . NPH . and levemir . Like i said sometimes that fast short acting can be helpful for some dogs especially with spiking sugar at food and shot time

There can always be a possibility the dose is to much causing the instability and the only way to do that is a reduction and maybe dramatic and let it settle

I wish i could tell you what direction to go but that is not possible for me to do . I had to try most of these things with jesse till she found her regulation and her routine ended up being far different from most on here .
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Jesse-26 lbs - 14 years old - 9 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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  #103  
Old 01-13-2019, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: Diabetes, Cushings and Pancreatitis in my Dog

Thanks for the information. So the fast acting I would give him the regular 11 units and then the fast acting shot as well? How does that normally work?

I don't think my vet is versed on this so I would need to explain to her.

Thanks,
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14 yr old, Atypical Cushings, Pancreatitis, Allergies. 12u Vetsulin 2x a day. Royal Canin Hydrolized Protein and Glycobalance equal mix 1 cup 2x Day. Snacks Green Beans/Boiled Chicken. Tylan Powder, Purina FortiFlora, Flax Hull Lignans 35mg 1x day.
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  #104  
Old 01-13-2019, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Diabetes, Cushings and Pancreatitis in my Dog

yes you would give at the same time as your normal insulin and meal
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Jesse-26 lbs - 14 years old - 9 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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  #105  
Old 01-13-2019, 03:06 PM
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rocksmom rocksmom is offline
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Default Re: Diabetes, Cushings and Pancreatitis in my Dog

I'm not going to be much help, but just wanted to add that our dogs have similar health conditions with the cushing's and allergies and we just got a good curve result today with 8u of vetsulin. He's currently at 16 pounds so right at that .5u/lb mark you mentioned. Our internist also brought up the complications from cushing's and said not to be too hung up on the number. She basically said if it works, it works.
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  #106  
Old 01-14-2019, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: Diabetes, Cushings and Pancreatitis in my Dog

With those curve numbers, I'd say he's just a bit under-dosed. My dog is 25 lbs. and now takes 9 units of NPH.

Fast acting insulin can vary on what it does to blood sugar each day because the body does different things on its own each day with just the normal insulin. Otherwise your curve would be identical every day, and we know that doesn't happen.

Myself, I just kept increasing until the curve got better, I've only used fast acting when sugar was abnormally way high on a day here and there. Last time I used it, his fasting was 28.1 {510}, I gave him one unit of fast with his normal dose, and 4 hours later he was at 10 {180}. It can be pretty dramatic.

I'd increase his normal insulin another unit and give it a couple weeks.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #107  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: Diabetes, Cushings and Pancreatitis in my Dog

Thanks you guys - I will try to increase to 12 units and see what happens. Also, I am using the U-40 syringes and my syringe only goes up to 12 units - should I buy the .5 syringes next? Mine say .33 volume.

Thanks,
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14 yr old, Atypical Cushings, Pancreatitis, Allergies. 12u Vetsulin 2x a day. Royal Canin Hydrolized Protein and Glycobalance equal mix 1 cup 2x Day. Snacks Green Beans/Boiled Chicken. Tylan Powder, Purina FortiFlora, Flax Hull Lignans 35mg 1x day.
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  #108  
Old 01-14-2019, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: Diabetes, Cushings and Pancreatitis in my Dog

Not sure what you mean with the change in syringe to half unit markings for u-40 syringes as i did not think they made that style

Now if your suggesting using u-100 syringes with vetsulin there is a conversion for that but you have to make sure everyone is on board so there is no confusion among all the parties involved describing how much insulin is given .

I probably would not give a short or fast acting insulin with vetsulin as that is already done within the structure of that insulin
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Jesse-26 lbs - 14 years old - 9 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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  #109  
Old 01-14-2019, 11:34 AM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is online now
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Default Re: Diabetes, Cushings and Pancreatitis in my Dog

Quote:
Originally Posted by YukiesMom View Post
Thanks you guys - I will try to increase to 12 units and see what happens. Also, I am using the U-40 syringes and my syringe only goes up to 12 units - should I buy the .5 syringes next? Mine say .33 volume.

Thanks,
Yes. You can certainly go to the .5cc (mL) syringes. They have a 20 unit capacity and some like this brand have half unit markings...
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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine
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  #110  
Old 01-14-2019, 01:14 PM
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YukiesMom YukiesMom is offline
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Default Re: Diabetes, Cushings and Pancreatitis in my Dog

Thank you - I was getting worried that I would have to inject him twice if the insulin went past 12 units.
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14 yr old, Atypical Cushings, Pancreatitis, Allergies. 12u Vetsulin 2x a day. Royal Canin Hydrolized Protein and Glycobalance equal mix 1 cup 2x Day. Snacks Green Beans/Boiled Chicken. Tylan Powder, Purina FortiFlora, Flax Hull Lignans 35mg 1x day.
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