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  #1  
Old 08-28-2018, 03:47 PM
Ozzie’s Dad's Avatar
Ozzie’s Dad Ozzie’s Dad is offline
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Post New member Ozzie

Hello,
I’d like to introduce myself as Ozzie’s Dad!
Ozzie is 12 year old Westie..I joined the forum because I am really stumped about his Regulation. I know where he should be and I know where he is!
We have stumped 3 vets.. so far.
We check blood by Alphatrak., curves ever 2 weeks and always record am and Pm BGs.
He is 20 pounds and we are currently at 6 3/4
Units.. and heading slowly toward 7.
Ozzie started at 8 when he was diagnosed and bottomed out and we dealt with
Somogyi for weeks and had to go all the way back
To 1 unit...
First vet went t0 8.. too much
2nd vet did curves for days and had never seen 250 point drops in 2 hours..
She switched to Lantus for the longer duration Bc Ozzie does not hold his insulin.... in house curves for weeks .. slowing moving up to 2 then 3 but Bg still too high
400s, 500,s some 600 and 700...
Fast forward to new vet internist..
Who says we can give insulin whenever we want and he was very happy with the 400 and 500 numbers .Needless to say,
We are leaving him.. his words belie all that was ever know abt how insulin and diabetes work.......
So now we sit..
Ozzie cannot get out of the 400s Am and Pm reads.
I plan to bump him to 7 units shortly..
Has anyone ever experienced a diabetic with such swings?
Here is the interesting part.. he does NOT drink
Or pee excessively. He is pretty great clinically!
Now that I have your head spinning.. lol
It is same food, same injection time AM and PM.. no snacks and 1 can of Hills glucose management at each meal currently at 6
3/4 units...
We change the Relion NPH
Walmart Insulin every 40 days..
I’m trying to think what else I have not answered to solve Ozzie’s crazy
BG reads....
Thanks so much for reading my post and I will put up an avatar with specific food,insulin, photo and diagnose date April 18
2018..
If anyone has any insight it would be wonderful!
Thanks so much!
Ozzie’s Dad

May head to another specialist.. but each time we have to go back to square one!
These forums have taught me MORE than any vet and belonging to them has given me an inside track and I am extremely grateful for all of you!
I have come a very long way since my first
Diabetic dog in 2003...thank you very much!!
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2018, 04:55 PM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Western New York
Posts: 767
Default Re: New member Ozzie

Hi and welcome to the forum.

You’ve gone through a lot in a short period of time.

Now that Ozzie’s on 6 3/4 units of Novolin N, do you have a 12 hour curve that you can post? The normal starting dose For a 20lb dog would be 4 units twice daily. Insulin increases should be based on the lowest BG reading in the 12 hour curve. Seeing the curve would be very helpful.

Ozzie’s a handsome dude
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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2018, 05:03 PM
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jesse girl jesse girl is online now
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Posts: 8,295
Default Re: New member Ozzie

hi and welcome

Yep sounds like your pup started out on to much insulin and that in itself can really put a damper on regulation because you have no idea on what dose to go down to and just throws the body out of whack

You could go back to a normal starting dose which would be 4 units and work your way back up .

Lantus doesnt have a great track record with dogs so you did not have such a good start with the professionals . I ran into the same thing and decided to go it alone with help from the forum
__________________
Jesse-26 lbs - 15 years old - 9.5 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 8 and 10 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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  #4  
Old 08-28-2018, 05:25 PM
Ozzie’s Dad's Avatar
Ozzie’s Dad Ozzie’s Dad is offline
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Default Re: New member Ozzie

Thanks for your response!
I will post the last curve when he was at 6 then 61/2...
When I get it...I trust this board intrinsically more than a lot of vets!!
Ozzie metabolizes the insulin rapidly.
He starts at 5:30am in the 400-500 then goes to 345 Four hours post injection
Drops abt 20 more pointsat pre nadir then by 5:30 pm he is back in the 400-500 by 5:30om
And that was at 6 and 1/2..

Will post actual curve tomorrow but we’ve gone up a 1/4
unit and it will change again.

I also can’t get a straight answer whether the freestyle libre Is NOW available in the US for dogs.. that’s the device with the sensor!
That would be amazing.. if it is not here yet I know it is coming soon !

Thanks again!
__________________
Ozzie is a 12 year old male West Highland Terrier. Diagnosed April 2018. 20 Lbs. currently on Walmart Relion NPH 6 and 3/4’units BID
With 1 can Hill Glucose Management each feed!
5:30am and 5:30 PM
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  #5  
Old 08-28-2018, 06:08 PM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 6,016
Default Re: New member Ozzie

Welcome to you and Ozzie.

When he *bottomed out* on 8 units, was that also on Novolin-N? Was he on the same diet, and eating well, then? Just seeing if he’s on the same insulin and diet as now. How long ago was that? Maybe was still producing some insulin at that time?

My Annie was 18-20 pounds and spent a lot of time on 9 units of Novolin-N. Of course every pup / situation is different.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9˝ years.
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2018, 07:10 PM
Ozzie’s Dad's Avatar
Ozzie’s Dad Ozzie’s Dad is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 3
Default Re: New member Ozzie

Actually he was on Humulin N.. the expensive brand from CVS... Now we use Novolin N from Walmart. Maybe that could have been Craig... but it’s been months since then.
His food was a dry kibble and that had a high glycemic index.. but we switched when he bottomed out...
he’s been on Novolin N. Starting at 4 units and slowly moving up to at present 6 3/4.. probably heading to 7.. because he is still in the 400-500’s..
It’s almost like it takes his pancreas 2 weeks to adjust to the tiny increases..
But the Bg still stay in the high 400’s
Food has been the same for 3 months now with 1 can Hill’s Wet
Glucose Management!
1 can each meal. 6 3/4 units!!
Heading to 7units in a few days if bG does not lower...
Going very slowly as not to trigger Somogyi!
Thanks
__________________
Ozzie is a 12 year old male West Highland Terrier. Diagnosed April 2018. 20 Lbs. currently on Walmart Relion NPH 6 and 3/4’units BID
With 1 can Hill Glucose Management each feed!
5:30am and 5:30 PM
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2018, 07:50 PM
jesse girl's Avatar
jesse girl jesse girl is online now
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Posts: 8,295
Default Re: New member Ozzie

Thats good you return to a normal stating dose after you switched insulin with what you guys went through

sounds like your methodically raising the dose and given it time to settle good job

You pup will get there with you staying the course . Its not that complicated and it seems you have a good grasp of the situation
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Jesse-26 lbs - 15 years old - 9.5 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 8 and 10 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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