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  #341  
Old 10-31-2009, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: Sable's road to regulation!

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Originally Posted by k9diabetes View Post
I'd base it on how much action Sable gets from 4 units. If her blood sugar is high and staying that way, I'd bump it up within a day or two by 1-2 units and see what effect that has. When you start approaching good numbers, then is the time to move slowly and look at the trends over time each day to see about how long it's lasting, etc.

Usually the amount of units needed is similar unless the previous insulin wasn't working. Vetsulin is working for Sable so I anticipate that the dose on NPH won't be significantly different.
I gave Sable 4 units of the NPH this morning, will be testing today to see how her numbers are going.

I have also been splitting her dog food out (as she gets 2 cups a day I try to feed her 1/4 cup at a time thru the day, it seems a full cup at a time really pushes her numbers up fast). Today I gave her 3/4 of a cup this morning as she generally gets 1/2 a cup. Her bg numbers were at 120 this morning (again usually her numbers are decent in the morning) but with the new insulin I wanted to give the extra 1/4 of a cup just to be cautious- and then I'll check her in a little while and go from there.

Another question I have, once I use the NPH and get to where it is working good (hopefully it works great and I can use it all the time) is it possible to use it in the morning and then at night use the vetsulin (at the very least to use the vetsulin I have up) as it seems her numbers stay good thru the night with the vetsulin or is that something you wouldn't do... use NPH one shot and Vetsulin another shot.

Hopefully I can get the NPH to where it is suppose to be in the next week or two as after that she will have to be alone for a good part of the day probably. Hopefully she gets regulated on it rather quickly and all goes well for my next set of tests... i'm so stressed with all this... now a nap for an hour (or two) and then to test Sable again... thanks for the help as always.
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  #342  
Old 10-31-2009, 06:40 AM
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We Hope We Hope is offline
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Default Re: Sable's road to regulation!

I would not mix the two insulins. They are different species, different profiles, and different strengths.

I do know some people who use beef or pork insulin for their basal and fast or rapid acting GE or analog insulin for their meal insulin. They've been doing it for years and this is what works for them. Also knew of someone who was doing something similar with a cat, who was on a long-acting analog and using beef insulin when corrective insulin was needed. Again, this worked for her, but these are examples of using one for their longer-acting insulin and another species for their shorter-acting insulin for meals or bg corrections.

Officially, no one has done any testing on the use of two different species of insulin used in the same patient so there are no studies we can look at to give us any further information on it.

To me, doing this defeats the purpose of your switching to NPH because you need to see how Sable does on that insulin day and night.

When you make an insulin switch, you stop using one and start using the other. I would keep what Vetsulin you have in case you need to go back to it.

Kathy
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  #343  
Old 10-31-2009, 07:34 AM
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Margaret Boyle Margaret Boyle is offline
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Default Re: Sable's road to regulation!

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Originally Posted by ravenecw View Post
I gave Sable 4 units of the NPH this morning, will be testing today to see how her numbers are going.

I have also been splitting her dog food out (as she gets 2 cups a day I try to feed her 1/4 cup at a time thru the day, it seems a full cup at a time really pushes her numbers up fast). Today I gave her 3/4 of a cup this morning as she generally gets 1/2 a cup. Her bg numbers were at 120 this morning (again usually her numbers are decent in the morning) but with the new insulin I wanted to give the extra 1/4 of a cup just to be cautious- and then I'll check her in a little while and go from there.

Another question I have, once I use the NPH and get to where it is working good (hopefully it works great and I can use it all the time) is it possible to use it in the morning and then at night use the vetsulin (at the very least to use the vetsulin I have up) as it seems her numbers stay good thru the night with the vetsulin or is that something you wouldn't do... use NPH one shot and Vetsulin another shot.

Hopefully I can get the NPH to where it is suppose to be in the next week or two as after that she will have to be alone for a good part of the day probably. Hopefully she gets regulated on it rather quickly and all goes well for my next set of tests... i'm so stressed with all this... now a nap for an hour (or two) and then to test Sable again... thanks for the help as always.
Hi Eric,

Glad to see you posting again I was worried about you.

Sorry to hear you are still having health problems, I do hope you get good news and nothing to worry about.

I see you are trying new insulin I also hope this works for Sable

I can't offer you any advice on the insulin, but the experts sure can

Lucy is seeing really well but we still have up and downs with her Bg's as she is still on a few drops. Things can only get better Eric.

Hugs to you and Sable
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  #344  
Old 10-31-2009, 08:25 AM
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ravenecw ravenecw is offline
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Default Re: Sable's road to regulation!

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Originally Posted by We Hope View Post
I would not mix the two insulins. They are different species, different profiles, and different strengths.

I do know some people who use beef or pork insulin for their basal and fast or rapid acting GE or analog insulin for their meal insulin. They've been doing it for years and this is what works for them. Also knew of someone who was doing something similar with a cat, who was on a long-acting analog and using beef insulin when corrective insulin was needed. Again, this worked for her, but these are examples of using one for their longer-acting insulin and another species for their shorter-acting insulin for meals or bg corrections.

Officially, no one has done any testing on the use of two different species of insulin used in the same patient so there are no studies we can look at to give us any further information on it.

To me, doing this defeats the purpose of your switching to NPH because you need to see how Sable does on that insulin day and night.

When you make an insulin switch, you stop using one and start using the other. I would keep what Vetsulin you have in case you need to go back to it.

Kathy

Thank you for the reply, I wasn't sure so that's why I asked- hopefully the NPH will work better than the Vetsulin was and I won't have to worry about it as well, plus I'll have the Vetsulin as a back up in case I need for some reason (or maybe I can find someone who needs it- again, not trying to get ahead of myself as I'm no sure how the NPH will work yet even).


I'm so happy to get answers from the experts though, I still have no idea where I would be without you all. It does seem like she will need more than 4 units of the NPH but it's early yet so we'll see, she does not seem like she is going low enough (however we still have all day so we'll see).
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  #345  
Old 10-31-2009, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Sable's road to regulation!

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Originally Posted by k9diabetes View Post
I'd base it on how much action Sable gets from 4 units. If her blood sugar is high and staying that way, I'd bump it up within a day or two by 1-2 units and see what effect that has. When you start approaching good numbers, then is the time to move slowly and look at the trends over time each day to see about how long it's lasting, etc.

Usually the amount of units needed is similar unless the previous insulin wasn't working. Vetsulin is working for Sable so I anticipate that the dose on NPH won't be significantly different.
4 units is not going to be enough.... her numbers are high today when they are usually much much lower... (infact she was 400 when I checked). I will keep checking to see but will have to bump this up as i'm sure it's not enough already. Like you said we may approach a similar number (7 or 8) I believe, but time will tell.
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  #346  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Hi Eric,

Did you raise the dose?

How are things going?

With the warning about Vetsulin, you picked a good time to switch!

Natalie
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  #347  
Old 11-03-2009, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Sable's road to regulation!

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Originally Posted by k9diabetes View Post
Hi Eric,

Did you raise the dose?

How are things going?

With the warning about Vetsulin, you picked a good time to switch!

Natalie
I have raised the dose, she does not seem to be taking to it as well as I hoped, I was actually thinking of going back to Vetsulin soon if things didn't get better.

As far as the Vetsulin what exactly does this mean? The Vetsulin I have was bought in July (I believe it was July...). I'll post back later if I can, I've been really stressed with things going on here and now I read this...and i'm not sure what it means, is the Vetsulin I have useless?
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  #348  
Old 11-03-2009, 08:30 AM
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Default Re: Sable's road to regulation!

I don't have any more details but the concern seems to be that there could be more or less longer acting insulin in the Vetsulin than there should be.

Vetsulin is a "lente" insulin - it contains 30% semilente or faster acting insulin and 70% ultralente or longer acting insulin. FDA is saying that the percentage of the longer lasting ultralente insulin cannot be confirmed as consistently 70% so could be more or less or the right amount.

It may be that no one knows how long this has been occurring.

How does her blood sugar look during the day? Is it high and fairly stable at those higher levels or is it going through large swings between high and low?

Curves can change as you approach the right dose so if the dose is still way too low, you may see a different response with more units. Duration, for example, can be affected by there just not being enough insulin and will get longer as you get to more units. If there are really big swings in BG, though, you may not be able to give enough insulin.

Natalie
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  #349  
Old 11-03-2009, 01:04 PM
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ravenecw ravenecw is offline
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Default Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by k9diabetes View Post
I don't have any more details but the concern seems to be that there could be more or less longer acting insulin in the Vetsulin than there should be.

Vetsulin is a "lente" insulin - it contains 30% semilente or faster acting insulin and 70% ultralente or longer acting insulin. FDA is saying that the percentage of the longer lasting ultralente insulin cannot be confirmed as consistently 70% so could be more or less or the right amount.

It may be that no one knows how long this has been occurring.

How does her blood sugar look during the day? Is it high and fairly stable at those higher levels or is it going through large swings between high and low?

Curves can change as you approach the right dose so if the dose is still way too low, you may see a different response with more units. Duration, for example, can be affected by there just not being enough insulin and will get longer as you get to more units. If there are really big swings in BG, though, you may not be able to give enough insulin.

Natalie
Hi, I only got to check her 3 times today but so far it's ok...

249 at aprox. 5:30am
150 at aprox. 11:00am
196 at aprox. 3:00pm

I will let you know how things go as I go.... if it works as well (or better) I think i'd rather stick with this though, espciall after hearing about the Vetsulin. I will keep the Vetsulin handy though as it does work for her, just never seems to last the whole 12 hrs. It's wierd though, she always did seem that now and then she would be ok, but most of the time (in the evenings in particular) she would be really high. Anyway, I will keep you posted.
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  #350  
Old 11-03-2009, 01:24 PM
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Patty Patty is offline
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Default Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Eric,
What dose is that on? That's looking good.
Patty
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