We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

[Jessie'sMummy]

Jess is a 13 year old collie cross, she was diagnosed with diabetes on Monday. We're in the UK.

Her blood sugar was 26 on Monday afternoon when tested. She's had 6 doses of insulin since (4IUs of caninsulin twice daily) and her reading was 12.2 at the vet's this afternoon.

The vet is pleased. She's eating fine and the intense, obsessive water drinking we saw in her last week has stopped.

She's had mild cataracts for 3-4 years that haven't hugely affected her sight but she's gone almost blind in the past week.

We're absolutely heartbroken. However we were (wrongly) told she probably had three terminal illnesses in summer 2014, so we're grateful for every day we have with her.

She seems happy in herself generally, enjoyed the ride to the vet's today and a walk in the park this afternoon.

She's managing ok as long as we have lights on early in the morning and at night. I am scared when she comes down the stairs and she sometimes bumps into things.

I've read a lot on this forum and it's brilliant.

I'm keen to start testing her at home (vet was surprised at this, says she's never heard of anyone doing this) and we're pushing for cataract surgery as soon as she's stable.

The one thing I'm really confused about is that we've been told to feed her 1 hour after her insulin and I can't find the same advice anywhere.

The vet says it's best practice and is obviously working for her as her blood sugar was so much better today.

Any advice/support greatly appreciated.

[Jessie'sMummy]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

Sorry that should be 8IUs twice a day. She's about 17kg.

[Eddie]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

Hello and welcome! We're in the UK too.

It sounds as if he blood sugar is much better already which is good.

We blood test at home (solely because of this forum). We are the only clients our vet has who do test at home and we started without even telling them. I am so glad that we do and I can't really imagine managing this without doing it. There is lots of help on this site about how to do the testing.
I get all the supplies for testing off Amazon. (I also get Caninsulin online from Animed as it is much cheaper than the vet's price).

I would not inject before feeding. I am quite surprised if that is the advice you have been given. The risk is that you shove the insulin into them and then they don't feel like eating, or just eat a bit - and you have no way to get the insulin back again so it works out that they have had too much insulin and risk their blood sugar going low.
At such an early stage in the process I really doubt that giving the insulin that one hour early makes any discernible difference in how it works, and I think it is possibly risky.

We inject while our dog eats - but we always check that it looks as if he is going to finish before we actually inject. (He is half Labrador so he almost never refuses food!).

There are lots of things you can do to help them get around if they do lose their sight - I found a good book called "Living with Blind dogs" by Caroline Levin very helpful. Our dog lost his sight (before he got diabetes) from an unrelated problem quite a few years ago and he is still a happy waggy dog even though he does sometimes bump into things. The most useful thing we did was to teach him that if we said/ shrieked "Bump" he had to stop until we told him where to go.

It does get a lot easier and more routine as you get used to it all, and this forum is a great help.
Antonia

[Jessie'sMummy]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

Thanks Eddie, I've emailed the vet and hopefully will get a response tomorrow. In the morning I'll feed her and give her the injection at the same time, just to be safe.

[Jessie'sMummy]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

Me again Antonia, sorry didn't notice your name at the bottom of the message. Hope you don't mind me asking some questions.

You say you found the caninsulin cheaper online, we've been charged £30 for 10ml today which will last her nearly a month. It would be £10 for a prescription from the vet which wouldn't make it much cheaper online for us. How much do you buy at a time?

Love that you shout "bump"! I've used the word "careful" more times than I can believe this week. She's looking to me for encouragement though and luckily she does understand a lot of words. She stops and listens if she's unsure where she is. Using "up" and "down" on stairs and steps in the garden is working well for us, as well as "slowly" which she already knows.

She doesn't seem to want to stay in the garden at all except to go to the loo and straight back. Does your dog do that? Or does he sniff around?

We're having a new sofa tomorrow (worst timing ever) but it will be in the same place so shouldn't bother her too much.

I'll get the book you mentioned. I've also moved her bed into our room so I don't worry about her falling downstairs in the night - though she did jump the last four steps tonight and looked very pleased with herself.

I'm finding it so upsetting to see her blind but she has amazed me by how she's managing really.

[Cara Sandler]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

I second the vote to not inject before eating. If you do inject and then your pup won't eat you're probably going to have to make a trip to the emergency vet for IV glucose.

[lab lover]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

Hi Jessie Mom , I'm Ida and my lab Baby Girl has had diabetes since she was 9 she is 13, I just came back to the post wonderful ppl and they help u a lot, I just wanted to let u know Baby Girl is almost blind I think she see a little bit , if lights are not on at night she won't moved. Do u notice she's a little more anxious because of not seeing - we moved from Tennessee to Miami, in the process of the moved she started too go blind and that was hard on her, right now she I adjusting, so glad too meet you.

[Eddie]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

We pay about £16 per bottle at Animed. The vet charges £12 for a prescription and we buy 10 bottles at a time. They have very long "use by" dates and we have never had a problem with using it well within the dates. Over the months/years it makes quite a difference, although we do use more than you as our dog is bigger.

Our dog does go outside and potter about on his own or with the other dogs, if they all rush out to bark at something. He will also follow trails like when there has been a hedgehog in the garden and they all dash around trying to find it, he joins in despite me telling him that it is silly and he needs to slow down!

He perhaps goes out on his own a bit less than he used to but I think that is down to ageing rather than lack of vision. He will still set off purposefully on his own towards the muck heap to find some horse manure to enjoy privately (as he knows we will tell him to stop if we catch him at it!).

He did go through a stage of being more hesitant at night. I suspect it was at a stage when he could see a bit in daylight and not at all at night. Then I used to put a lead on him so he felt reassured - he would still lead the way but I think he was more confident as he knew I would guide him away from obstacles if needed. He hasn't wanted that for several years now so I think it was just while he adjusted.

Overall I think them losing their sight tends to be more traumatic for the owners than for the dogs, unless they are especially anxious like Amy's Maggie on here. Having said that, I would have investigated surgery for Eddie if that had been at all an option for him so I can completely understand that. I gather that the after care is quite intense though with many eyedrops required at first.

One final thought - we found that there were some things eg table legs that Eddie consistently hit and it was much better for him after I wrapped them up in bubble wrap - not a great look but much softer for his head!

Antonia

[Jessie'sMummy]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

Hi Ida, I've seen your thread and I hope Baby Girl is doing ok. Jess doesn't seem too upset, just a bit confused especially at night. She's still enjoying going in the car and for walks. I think she can still see a little or better during the day.

Thanks Antonia, I didn't realise it would have a long date on the insulin so we'll definitely look into doing that. Jess has been having a wander in the garden and checking out her favourite pond (carefully!) so I think she's gaining in confidence a little bit.

On Wednesday morning about 4am I checked on her and let her out and she bumped into lots of things so I put her on the lead - but in hindsight she was probably still sleepy more than anything and I'd woken her up.

The mornings are getting lighter quite quickly though so hopefully things will be a bit easier soon.

She's doing ok with navigating without too many bumps now though we are considering getting her a crash helmet! But I think bubblewrap on the coffee table might be a good thing - though she's always bumped into that as it's head height on her and she was never great at looking where she was going.

[amydunn19]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

Hi and belated welcome to you and Jessie! Glad you found the forum. The first step in this process is the decision to take an active role in your dog's care so you are off to a great start. I was quite hesitant at first and completely trusted my original vet and didn't really do much research until Maggie had trouble.

Testing at home has added years to Maggie's life. At one point,
I was told she wouldn't make it 6 months. She has had diabetes for over 8 years so I hope that this gives you hope for your dog leading a relatively normal life.

Blindness came practically overnight for her and she did not adapt at all. Maggie had a pretty horrible start in life - she was mistreated and left in a crate while her family left for four days at about 9 weeks old. The breeder (a friend of mine) found out and demanded her return. I got her at 11 weeks old and she has always had separation anxiety and can't be crated. I think this prevented her from accepting the blindness because it came on quite suddenly. She cried and stayed in a panic if she wasn't held or carried. We elected to have the cataract surgery because the anxiety was wreaking havoc on her blood sugar. Her vision was restored and she had her vision until the past year. She has developed some old age blindness and had some ulcers that we had issues healing but ironically, she completely accepted going blind this time. I think the main reason is because it has been gradual and she still has some limited vision. If she did not have such an extreme reaction to blindness, I probably would not do the surgery over again. It is a risk, of course, as all surgery is and as others have mentioned, it is not as important to most dogs as it is people. You have to weigh how much it impacts your dog. I felt like Maggie wouldn't survive just from sheer anxiety if we didn't do something so I never regretted it.

I would agree with the others regarding injections - I never would inject prior to the dog eating. It can be dangerous if they don't eat.

You will find diabetes can be frustrating in the beginning - getting to a good dose can take some time especially if done properly. It is a process that requires patience and resisting the temptation to try to "fix" them quickly. They can live a normal life with probably more structure than before - I think you will find that you develop a deeper relationship and I always say Maggie's diabetes made me a much better "owner" and person.

[Eddie]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

We find Eddie can be more confused when he first wakes up, especially if he has gone to sleep in an unusual place so he doesn't really know where he is starting from.

I looked into dog "halos" for blind dogs (but they wouldn't work for such a big dog) and we actually got him a helmet (Optivizor) but he really didn't like it so it sits in a cupboard. I think he prefers his method of bumping along and doing ok. In many years he has not hurt himself apart from the odd scratch (which pains me possibly more than him but we try to accept that it is just what will happen from time to time if he is to keep his independence).

Antonia

[Jessie'sMummy]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

That's interesting Antonia, I might look into a helmet for her.

She's developed a funny habit of going through our legs - she can't really see us but I think she can feel that we're there and obviously legs are "safe" as they're softer than coffee tables!

She's refused to go out several times tonight and she's been a bit shaky - but we think she'd heard a firework or something loud, as that's how she goes. I did give her a rich tea biscuit as I got worried, but she is bright and alert. Just frightened of something.

She went out on her lead in the end and came back in very excited, so I don't think it's a hypo or anything like that.

[Jessie'sMummy]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

Hi Amy, thanks so much for the message.

I do think she's a bit confused/frightened at times but we're hopeful as the blindness only came on last week she would be a good candidate for surgery. But she is 13, so we'll need to see. If we could give her just six months of sight though, I'll happily pay for it.

She managed to play with her ball today, she can find it if you bounce it right in front of her, and she's barking and growling playing with it in the same way as she always does, so perhaps things aren't so bad.

Maggie sounds wonderful. She's a very lucky girl. You're right about becoming closer to them, Jess is my baby and although I'm knackered looking after her at the moment, she's worth every moment of missed sleep!

[CraigM]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

Hi Amy, thanks so much for the message.

I do think she's a bit confused/frightened at times but we're hopeful as the blindness only came on last week she would be a good candidate for surgery. But she is 13, so we'll need to see. If we could give her just six months of sight though, I'll happily pay for it.

She managed to play with her ball today, she can find it if you bounce it right in front of her, and she's barking and growling playing with it in the same way as she always does, so perhaps things aren't so bad.

Maggie sounds wonderful. She's a very lucky girl. You're right about becoming closer to them, Jess is my baby and although I'm knackered looking after her at the moment, she's worth every moment of missed sleep!

Just wanted to add my 2 cents, and say "welcome".

Annie is 14.5 years old, diabetic going on 8 years, and totally blind for about 18 months. As with your pup, she still enjoys chasing a bounced ball indoors, and navigates our fenced back yard with little problem.

She did have cataract surgery maybe 5 years ago, but if I had it to do over again I might not do it. First there is the cost. At that time the surgery was a little over $3,000 (probably more today), then there were many appointments with the eye vet. I'm sure there were many months we spent over $200 for appointments and eye drops. During much of that time her diabetes (blood glucose readings) was not very good. She could see, but I'm pretty sure the eyes, and all the eye drops, were giving her trouble. She finally developed glaucoma and we had the remaining eye chemically "killed". Within weeks her eye went to a normal color (had been various shades of pink and red for years) and her blood glucose has almost been a breeze to maintain. She is down to two inexpensive eye drops, from 5-6 different drops that required a matrix to keep track of the different requirements.

Of course every dog / situation is different and I know many pups on the forum have done GREAT after cataract surgery. Really a hard decision.

Craig

[Jessie'sMummy]

Re: We're new to this. Four days in. Please help!

Just wanted to add my 2 cents, and say "welcome".

Annie is 14.5 years old, diabetic going on 8 years, and totally blind for about 18 months. As with your pup, she still enjoys chasing a bounced ball indoors, and navigates our fenced back yard with little problem.

She did have cataract surgery maybe 5 years ago, but if I had it to do over again I might not do it. First there is the cost. At that time the surgery was a little over $3,000 (probably more today), then there were many appointments with the eye vet. I'm sure there were many months we spent over $200 for appointments and eye drops. During much of that time her diabetes (blood glucose readings) was not very good. She could see, but I'm pretty sure the eyes, and all the eye drops, were giving her trouble. She finally developed glaucoma and we had the remaining eye chemically "killed". Within weeks her eye went to a normal color (had been various shades of pink and red for years) and her blood glucose has almost been a breeze to maintain. She is down to two inexpensive eye drops, from 5-6 different drops that required a matrix to keep track of the different requirements.

Of course every dog / situation is different and I know many pups on the forum have done GREAT after cataract surgery. Really a hard decision.

Craig

Thanks so much Craig. I think we're going to have to go for the surgery. She is so unhappy at night. Better in the day but at night she's miserable.

She's laid on her bed, which she has done every night this week and barely moved. She seems to be like this at night and I'm putting it down to her losing her sight.

She hasn't been left alone at all this week (we have a friend here all day and that's continuing this week and possibly for part of next week) until we popped out for a couple of hours today.

She seemed fine and pleased to see us when we got home but I'm going to worry about leaving her in the future, especially with her sight gone. She keeps sliding down the last few stairs on her belly, which she seems to enjoy but I'm worried about her hurting herself.

She's been out a couple of times tonight but on a lead as she won't go on her own. In the day, she will, so I'm presuming she still has some vision or the light makes a difference.

If she's this unhappy, I really don't know what we're going to do. Especially if she can't have the cataract surgery.

I've ordered the AlphaTrak which should come tomorrow or Tuesday.

Just feel so guilty that she's so fed up. She can't carry on like this anyway and I won't let her be miserable, it's not fair.

I've stopped crying at least now, just feel very guilty and helpless.