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Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

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  • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

    Hi Dori,

    I just caught up reading your thread. Kathy had a whole bunch of great links for you; I learned a fair bit on the blinddogs list- at least the crucial stuff. I learned from Kumbi as well!

    I think it's just wonderful that your other animals are coping with Mickey's blindness. That also indicates to me that you take great, excellent, care of all of them, sensitive to their interactions, aware of those - that you provide for them and shepherd them, so they can make full use of their own inclinations always to avoid conflict; to work for peace. GREAT JOB, Dori!

    I see others have also been contributing useful information. I can't add much, but can report a bit on my experience with Kumbi going mostly blind.

    Kumbi started bumping into things in the house about five months after he was diagnosed with diabetes. I had seen the cataracts coming; that's different from Mickey. I'm glad you're in close touch with your vet about Mickey's eyes.

    I also agree with - was it Kathy? - who said the surgery can be worse than the blindness. This depends on a whole bunch of different circumstances. With me, there was nothing to decide; there's no way I can afford the surgery, even if Kumbi were a good candidate for it. And I'd have to travel; both dogs would have to travel with me - they cannot manage it; too much stress - dislocation! Kumbi had turned 10 a few months before he lost his vision; Kwali was 12 already.

    So, I went to the blinddogs list, where I learned a few useful things. And I watched Kumbi around the house. I put up a few barriers outdoors, trying to keep Kumbi from falling into the perimeter ditch (deep! - steep angles) that surround my trailer house. He did once fall in! He managed to scramble out - he arrived soaking wet at the front door!

    Kumbi can't see right in front of his nose. I don't move my furniture, and I see him feeling his way, both with paws and with his body, as we have a lot of narrow spaces here. I leave a jacket hanging on a chair near the front door, and he uses that as a guide! It's nice and soft!

    Dogs notice textures under their paws, too; that might help sometimes. Like Mickey, Kumbi jumps up on the couch, and also, he climbs steps to Our Bed, and descends them as well. I added extra panels from ex-pens to make extra fences, to keep Kumbi from falling - I put them alongside the Bed-Steps, for instance.

    One of the hardest things for US to do is to avoid communicating our unhappiness to the dog, but they read us to perfection, so you might need to work on yourself for a bit, about feeling it's unfair. Of course it's unfair, but as others have said, dogs adapt very well, though they can easily be depressed for a few weeks at first.

    From all your descriptions, I think maybe Mickey has some vision - at a guess, maybe he sees light and dark, maybe some motion, possibly, in his peripheral vision but not straight ahead, in front of his nose.

    My biggest feeling right now is that if you can act cheerful, even if you don't feel that way, that will be a help to Mickey. Be ready to praise him for his successes - give him a bit of a cuddle!

    I'll keep a close eye (ha!) on this thread, and try to jump in if I see anything I might possibly help with a bit. Both for Mickey and for you!

    Love and hugs,
    Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:34:20
    Last edited by CarolW; 10-01-2008, 10:40 AM. Reason: fix typos, add one remark
    http://www.coherentdog.org/
    CarolW

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    • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

      Carol ..thank you so much for all the tips and help! I think this is harder on me then Mickey..lol... Mickey get tons of love and support from my husband, myself, our vet and his pup brother and sisters. Mickey is growling now at people whose voice he doesnt reconize ( like my sons fiance) that I guess is just his stress over his lost sight. He is getting lots of love and hugs for support...( I could use a few ) lol

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      • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

        Hi Dori,
        We just wanted to sent YOU LOTS AND LOTS OF LOVE AND HUGS!!!!!!!!!!!
        Marion

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        • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

          Hi Dori,

          He is getting lots of love and hugs for support...( I could use a few ) lol
          Lady and me are sending lots of love and hugs from our house to yours.

          Luv,
          Lynne and Lady
          Luv,

          Lynne and Angel Lady 7/98-3/09 Forever in my heart

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          • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

            Thanks to all of you , You would not believe the courage and strength I get from coming here, posting and reading all of your stories of victory and heartbreak...The worse part for me is how helpless I feel sometimes against what is happening to one of my babies, because they truely are our children. I wish you all knew Mickey, he is such a gentle loving spirit, as a matter of fact, of all our pups, he has the sweetest demeanor and attitude. There isnt a mean bone in his little body. Thats why I said before how cruel and unfair this is. Maybe its just a little self pity in there too, dont know... If love could make Mickey healthy like before he would be Underdog... Thanks for listening.

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            • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

              Hi,
              I've just been catching up on your thread and am sorry to read of Mickey's diminishing sight. Lady's sight has been going very slowly for the last year. Our vet was so worried about her sight when she first had diabetes as it took so long to get some regulation between the diabetes and the Cushings. But her sight was great for the first 9 months after being diagnosed with diabetes.

              I've had time to adjust physically and emotionally to what she's going through. Every once in awhile we can tell that she is seeing less. Her peripheral vision has been gone for awhile...maybe a few months. She can still see something but the squirrels in the back yard are very safe from her as she can only hear them and see them if they move right in front of her. I had a chance last winter in Texas to see how things were changing for her. She could not tell when the pavement dropped (curb) if the two colors of pavement were the same color. I started using the words up or down when we came to uneven pavement. At home we have a light colored carpet to distinguish the one step from the house into the porch. She couldn't see that step before as the carpet on the two steps was the same color. Last spring she could distinguish the difference in the daytime but not at night.

              I had done a lot of reading about what others had done to make their dogs' environment more comfortable with the loss of their sight. That really helps. Sometimes it can be funny when we see her trying to find something she knows is there but can't see it. At times I've been ready to just bawl when I see her disoriented or confused but I know that will only upset her...so the laughter or humor of a situation is more beneficial to both of us. Even my husband isn't as upset at the diminishing sight as he used to be. She is doing an awesome job of listening to me and letting me guide her to something. If she stumbles or bumps into something she just trys again. "This way" was always an instruction that I've used with her on a walk and it is coming in so handy right now. She seems to respond more to the leash being pulled one way or the other to guide her. We travel a lot and her nose is always so close to the ground that she didn't always see things before she got to them anyway.

              The one problem that we're having is that her separation anxiety is worse than it ever was. We never leave her alone and had to hire a dog sitter to attend a wedding. I need to find something that will help keep her calm even if it's just for an hour so we could leave the house together!!

              Lady's awesome spirit and the knowledge that dogs cope better than us with blindness keeps me sane with this part of the journey. I'm glad Mickey has other canines close to him to keep him grounded during this time.
              Sending lots of hugs for you both,
              Jo-Ann & Lady

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              • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

                Dori,

                Maybe you haven't thought about it, but you and Mickey have had a great victory--you fought diabetes and you both won.

                When Lucky was first diagnosed and everything we were doing seemed not to help, I learned what a tough opponent diabetes can be at times. I also knew this was a race against time, because uncontrolled diabetes can kill--pet or person.

                So I mentally looked diabetes in the eye and said he wasn't going to take my baby from me. Felt a bit all thumbs because I wasn't a doctor, but wanted to help save Lucky. I started reading everything about diabetes--pets or people--I could find on the internet, and it helped me feel that I was trying to do something to help him.

                We found some of Lucky's answers this way--most particularly we learned about Caninsulin/Vetsulin, even though it was not approved in the US at the time. When Lilly stopped making the only insulin he could use, Iletin II Lente, knowing about Caninsulin/Vetsulin saved his life, as we applied for permission to import it for him.

                The victory is to live and be happy; Lucky certainly was able to do that and I know that Mickey will be able to do this too. Diabetes didn't take our babies from either of us.

                Kathy

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                • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

                  Dori, I have been keeping up with Mickey, and I am sorry to hear that you are all dealing with his sight issues...I know you have heard all the stories, but maybe you can stand one more. My first diabetic baby, Butch, was a MinPin, and he had my heart. When we were dealing with his disease, we didn't have the support of the internet, and boards like this one. We actually bought a glucometer, but had no idea how to use it....we were flailing around, doing our best to help him without benefit of blood testing OR a knowledgeable vet. All we had was a huge amount of love for him, and prayer. He was 1 year old when he was diagnosed, and we lost him from kidney failure (due to the uncontrolled diabetes) when he had just had his eleventh birthday. He lived with diabetes for almost ten years, and the last four, he was blind. He adjusted so well, that we actually didn't even realize that he was losing his sight until it was gone. He never indicated that he was unsure about moving around, and we weren't even aware that he had cataracts forming until they were mature....and I don't think that we weren't observant where Butchie was concerned. He just accepted his diminishing sight as a fact of life, and went on. Please try not to stress too much, Dori...Mickey won't. We can learn a lot from our friends.

                  Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

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                  • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

                    Just wanted everyone to know I can see Mickeys cataracts now.....

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                    • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

                      Dori - with Mickey not seeing, I think you could use additional information about dog-dog communications (which would also help you see how your other dogs are helping Mickey!).

                      Though Mickey can't see the calming signals the other dogs surely are giving off, he might well be USING some! For more information, you can start here:

                      http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/stressdown.php

                      For those who can manage it, I usually suggest acquiring all of the works of Turid Rugaas (they are listed on that page) - and studying them - at your leisure. Or asking your library to acquire them so you can borrow them! It's surprising how much it helps to have knowledge of how dogs communicate with each other, because they expect to communicate with humans the same way - but a lot of humans remain unaware of canine calming signals.

                      Those who do learn about them usually find they can use their knowledge to considerable advantage!

                      Thu, 9 Oct 2008 06:47:06
                      http://www.coherentdog.org/
                      CarolW

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                      • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

                        Ok ...this is a weird thing...This morning Mickeys eyes look clearer and he seems to be seeing better..can that happen? can developing cataracts subside? we were in a bright room and I was giving him his shot..he looked right at me and I could clearly see the pupil of his eyes. and instead of looking past his treat...he looked right at it..is this possible??

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                        • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

                          Dori,

                          This is the first time I've ever posted anything about this because it is very rare that it happens. Not long after Lucky was regulated, he began having terrible anxiety attacks. He was so upset, he was trying to crawl under and hide in places where it was impossible for him to see to get to if he didn't have clear vision.

                          His eyes became totally clear of the diabetic cataracts and the sudden clearing of his vision frightened him terribly. We had to use Rescue Remedy and Five Flower Drops to calm him for a while. I had him in when the attacks began and both John and his son examined his eyes. The cataracts were gone; at the time none of us had any idea how this could happen because it was considered impossible when it happened to Lucky.

                          Not until we read this article from Brazil did we actually understand:

                          http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?scri...82005000300036

                          Transient bilateral diabetic cataracts in a Brazilian Terrier puppy

                          Cienc. Rural vol.35 no.3 Santa Maria May/June 2005

                          DISCUSSION

                          "Transitory diabetic cataracts has been thought to occur in people with subclinical Diabetes mellitus with normal or only mildly increased blood glucose levels (DICKEY & DAILY, 1993) but in this canine patient the glucose levels were significantly increased.

                          "The initial appearance of the lenses was that described by TEITELBAUM (1998), similar to nuclear sclerosis, even though much denser. This type of cataracts is thought to occur in early ages and to be non reversible by blood glucose levels stabilization.
                          Controversially, after reduction of hyperglycemia in this puppy, the opacification was reduced and the lenses appeared as having a plaque in the posterior subcapsular region. This is the aspect usually described in cases of transitory diabetics cataracts in human beings (DICKEY & DAILY, 1993; GELVIN & THONN, 1993; BUTLER, 1994).

                          CONCLUSIONS

                          "Canine lenses may reassume transparency after a rapid glycemic control. The exact involved mechanisms in both human and canine diabetic cataracts are yet to be determined."

                          The entire article is at the link with photos of the puppy's cataracts and how they dissolved; you might want Mickey's vet to have a look at that article, along with this PubMed abstract:

                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...t=AbstractPlus

                          Spontaneous resorption of a diabetic cataract in a geriatric dog.
                          Journal of Small Animal Practice August 2005

                          Gonzalez-Alonso-Alegre E, Rodriguez-Alvaro A.
                          Hospital Clinico Veterinario, Departmento Patologia Animal II, Facultad de Veterinaria de Madrid, Avda. Puerta de Hierro s/n, Spain.

                          "Spontaneous cataract resorption is described in a geriatric cocker spaniel with a four-month history of diabetes mellitus. Resorption progressed to such a degree that vision was restored in that eye and almost all the cataract material disappeared. This is not common in geriatric dogs despite having been described with relative frequency in young animals with hereditary cataracts."

                          Lucky was at least 14-15 years old when this happened for us. I never posted about it before because most commonly, cataracts will need to be removed surgically. Didn't want people to have the idea that what happened for us might happen for them if they just sat back and waited, as it's a rare development.

                          You might want to take Mickey in to your vet to let her see what you're seeing with his eyes and share these two links with her.

                          Kathy

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                          • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

                            Thanks Kathy..Mickey goes back to the vet on the 15th ( this coming Wednesday) his eyes dont look completely clear but clearer then they did the other day !
                            Last edited by Mickey'sMom; 10-10-2008, 05:15 PM.

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                            • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

                              For those who want to know me a little better..............

                              http://www.myspace.com/dorirob

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                              • Re: Mickey Has diabetes possible Cushings too

                                Back from the vet....Mickeys BG 210...yes he is starting to go blind...Have the name of a recomended vet eye surgeon...he only does the eyes after the dog is completely blind...he does both eyes and does not replace the lenses...no replacement lense..no more cataracts..dog can see again..just not completely focused..so he wont be able to read or drive a car..otherwise he will see enough to be happy ...Less chance of any infection either...his success rate is 85% ...cost for both eyes 2,000 plus follow up care.....any opinions in here will be most welcome....we have time, his vision according to the vet is failing slowly.

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