Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

[runtotorun121]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

Here we go:

Husband is on his way to get the Novolin N RX from the Walmart pharmacy!

When I talked with the vet tech this morning she was continuing to be quite supportive and after I gave her all my thoughts she said she was in 100% agreement and thought the input from this board was right on track. She said the suggestions here were knowledgeable, and she was supportive about my participation and treatment planning here. She said she had planned on calling me this morning to see how he was doing and suggest changing to Novolin N if he did not seem to be doing better.

I realize I did not really get an answer to why we even started R. . ., but I did mention the suggestion that this may have been a very high dose and possibly was creating ongoing highs and lows across the day. I did not say the word "DANGEROUS". But she did say that could be a very real situation. I even mentioned to her that he could be going through half the day with no insulin at all. I know from working with clients who had diabetes in the past that sometimes your body adapts to the very high numbers and is still trying to work so I am imagining that dangerously high glucose, as dangerous as it is, may not have attacked his system as much as dangerously high, then very low, then dangerously high, then very low again. Poor guy.

She also said that as long as rain water didn't dilute the pee I was trying to salvage that is should be okay to consider. I do still plan to get a test done the correct way, but it could be later tonight! She did say that it was a positive sign that I wasn't getting a severe reading so I should go ahead and keep on with the subQs as I was monitoring.

She also is going to get a bag of fluids ready for me to pick up so I can continue to do BID for a bit. I am pretty sure 100 BID is better for him right now, plus he is so emaciated that trying to get 150ccs under his skin in one setting might prove a difficult task since the 100 irritates him a bit.

Oh, and she reinforced to keep the R on hand in case we need it. She also said she would touch base with me after the weekend but thought he could be doing a lot better with N.

As for the discouraging news about Min Pin testing when they are up to snuff , I guess I better take advantage of his lethargic self while I can! If he thinks he can 'best' this mommy he has another thing coming. I have pilled stronger and naughtier Rat Terriers than he has ever dreamed of being. I have the toenail scars to prove it, and I will never forget that horrid taste of Milk Thistle after one of mine let the capsule dissolve into her mouth and then PUFFED the powder out the side of her mouth and directly into mine as I was leaning over her face to see about our progress. NAUGHTY! Surely you are wrong about my sweet little Min Pin. . .


Back with more later.
Kristie

[runtotorun121]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

And in preparation, is there a specific where/when/how thread about potentially stabbing this Min Pin?

I read something last night and saw people were using needles and doing that by hand, but I have zero idea what that means or how to proceed if I get ready to test his blood. I have only ever seen the jabby-pokey pen thingies.

[Monsters Momma]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

Wow! I am impressed how quickly you have embraced this diabetes thing...although I'm not sure you had much of a choice! With love and determination...and some help from the people here and in your vets office...Snowball will pull through. I think this Min Pin has met his match in you! But as you said, you should take advantage of his weakened state and get him used to the poking and prodding that goes along with diabetes.

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15 This part of the forum deals with testing and such. Lots of great info here. I've watched the videos here http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2243 more than a couple of times. It really helped me figure out this testing thing. Although, I still had to poke Vinny four times in four different spots before I got enough blood to test the first time!

There is usually someone here, since this forum truly is international. I'm sorry you're going through such a rough time with Snowball. We're here to help as you need it!
Mel

[Cpaura]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

Hi Kristie,

Welcome this is a wonderful forum you found as I found that out just 2 months ago. There are a lot of experience diabetic dog owners on here that have awesome advice and great support. I am no expert yet so I will let the pros do what they do best, but I have listen to them (more then my vet at times) and they have always help me move forward in the right direction.
My dog was not walking well when she was first diagnosed too, more with a hunched back and back legs were wobbly. Not sure if it was from the diabetes or she had pancreatitis as well. Either way it went away in time. I wish you the best of luck, hope he starts feeling better soon!

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

Gooday Kristie

mel gave you some great links on hometesting.

some folks wrap their min pin in a towel. With one holding Snowball then the other quick pokes.

the when is at fasting just before breakfast and insulin.
its best to do a curve asap which is testing every 2 hours for a 12 hour period.

Its important to feed same amount, same insulin, same time, same exercise for 5 to 7 days then repeat the curve.

post your bg testing results k.

did you give the R insulin this morning?

am assuming you have the nph insulin by now and your going to start tonight just after food.

the starting dose for a 5 lb dog would be 1.25 units twice a day every 12 hours. I would start Snowball at 1 unit. Use your urine strips before food and insulin and also start testing as soon as you get the meter, lancets, and strips.

i use just the lancet for Riliey instead of the device its easier to get a blood sample. You might need to poke twice in the same spot.

Gotta run, good luck
your doing great Kristie

[Cara Sandler]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

And honestly, when I first started home testing Sparky's blood, it took me at least 6 or 7 tries to get a blood sample. Maybe even more. Fortunately, my dog was perfectly ok with it. Just don't be surprised and give up if you have trouble getting a blood sample at first. It gets easier with practice.

[runtotorun121]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

Okay, well, it took nine or ten sticks. Thank doG he is lethargic because by about the third or fourth poke on the lip I thought his eyes were definitely shooting daggers.

I tried his lip first, no blood. Then the pad on the bottom of a toe. No blood. Then a pad behind his foot. Yep, you guess it, no blood. I tried the tip of his tail and the base of his tail. No and No. I think I also tried just some random skin on the back of his leg. I looked at photos and watched all the videos. I tried the lancet device method AND by hand with poke/twist. I swear I saw ZERO blood. Not even a speck.

Finally I decided to go back to the lip. I will say that the monitor came with some sample lancets, and I had bought a box so perhaps I am not using the right ones for the job. I thought since his skin seemed thin I did not need the smallest gauge (largest needle) lancet. Perhaps that was wrong???

On the time before the last two attempts I think I got a teeny tiny droplet, but no matter how much I tried to massage up some blood it just sat there mocking me as a speck. That was the largest lancet I had. I believe the medium one Relion sells. Of course I bought the box of the smallest ones. So, and I know this probably unacceptable, in desperation I fished around in my pocket and pulled out 0.8mm Monject 250 I had in my pocket. I scrutinized it for a moment and decided I was going to go for it even though it was the wrong apparatus. So I jabbed and got a blood bead! Apparently not big enough, though. Even with all my kneading. I got an error message so I tried another strip. This time I mooshed and mooshed. And got a reading.

Whew.

However, I think I should try to do several tonight? Every two hours as though I was doing a 12 hour curve? Who knows, I might even set my alarm and do a 12 hour curve if it is acceptable to use these needles because I have no idea how to get the lancets to produce blood. I am hoping I don't run out of needles too soon, though (Plenty to do a 12 hour curve).

Knowing this probably is useless information since it was so long since breakfast and insulin (and he ate a smallish amount for breakfast), I hope it is at lease helpful in knowing he is not over 650 right now!

So here are the stats: 2:55pm - 5 hours after eating (+ 10") and 2.5units of Novolin N (Yes, they directed 2.5units again. Should I be doing 2 units instead or less? I see Mo suggested 1.25 BID this afternoon, and Natalie suggested 2.0 BID last night so?) - 146

I suppose it is really hard to see since there is no level for pre or post breakfat (immediate post).

Alright, now what?

[runtotorun121]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

Oh, and I am thinking I don't mind replicating as many times as needed so I could do a curve today; however, I don't know how good it would be for comparison between now and five days simply since Snowball is being a bit of a picky eater I am not sure I can get the same amount or even the same food in him consistently for two meals a day for five days. . .

[Cara Sandler]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

I don't think it matters how you get the blood sample, as long as you can get it. What type of meter are you using? I use the Alphatrak, and while supplies for it are more expensive than for some other meters, it uses the tiniest drop of blood out of all the meters. Makes testing easier.

As far as where to test, I know everyone has success in different places. I've had the most success using a spot near the base of Sparky's tail. He's about 20 pounds, and the spot that I use is about an inch diagonally from the actual base of his tail. I was poking all over the place at first - once I found this spot that worked, I shaved a tiny bit of his hair so I could always find it again (he has long hair, so unless you know where to look you can't even see the little spot).

Sparky has become very picky about food since becoming diabetic. I had to switch foods many times with him - he would eat certain foods for a few days, and then refuse to eat them again. I finally found several foods that are similar in nutrient breakdown, and some different types of baby food to use as toppers. I've started rotating his foods, which is not ideal for diabetes management, but is better than having him not eat at all. And at least I know that he's getting about the same amount of calories, as well as protein, carbs, sugar, fat, and fiber at each meal. The baby food has been key - I use one of the tiny little Gerber Stage 2 jars as a topper at each meal (adjusting the amount of kibble so that the calorie count stays the same). So far it has been working.

[jesse girl]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

you can still get pretty good information even if the feeding isnt that consistent

you will know at least where the numbers are going for the amount of food consumed . this will give the ability to adjust the dose for how much food is given possibly

all information is good and helpful moving forward . and you will be able to correlate those numbers in how he feels .

be careful dont push to hard and create a negative experience . if its a hassle take a break and come back to it . i dont like forcing anything with jesse if i can help it

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

Food works with the insulin, he needs to eat a full meal something he,ll gobble up.

The 146 might be 170 depending on what meter your using
blood sugar can rise or lower after food and insulin, we,ll find out tonight

tonight check for ketones with the urine strips
test at fasting with meter
feed
if theres ketones give 2.0 units, if not give 1 unit inject.

please post the numbers you get k

your doing great, take a deep breath
test again 2 hours later

[Cpaura]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

I had the hardest time getting blood! First i was testing outside the lip not knowing to roll up the lip and poke the inside. Then what worked best for me is i took off the cover of the lancet device and shot it from a close angle, works most of the time.

[runtotorun121]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

So we had 146 at 2:49pm now 81 at 4:55pm.

I got the cheap little Relion Prime, which someone suggested. From some quick reading here I know it is not going to read what the vet levels or an AlphaTrak read, but can anyone tell me if 81 means he is likely higher than that so no hypoglycemic concern or does it mean he is likely lower than that so I need to corn syrup now???

[runtotorun121]

Corn Syrup NOW, or Are We Okay???

I just posted this in my original thread, but so that I could have some sort of monitoring today I went and got the cheap Walmart Relion Prime that was suggested could get me by in a pinch for now.

I know from reading that it is not going to have the reading accuracy of the vet or an AlphaTrak, but can someone tell me if the Relion Primes tend to reflect a lower or higher reading than what it really is?

I had 146 at 2:49 and now 81 at 4:55. Is he higher than 81 or lower than 81??? So we are either fine or I need to syringe in some corn syrup. . .

[momofdecker]

Re: URGENT - Fragile Doggie and Mommy Need Help!

So we had 146 at 2:49pm now 81 at 4:55pm.

I got the cheap little Relion Prime, which someone suggested. From some quick reading here I know it is not going to read what the vet levels or an AlphaTrak read, but can anyone tell me if 81 means he is likely higher than that so no hypoglycemic concern or does it mean he is likely lower than that so I need to corn syrup now???

The 81 might be closer to 100. Not knowing where he is in his cycle and how close to meal and injection time I'd keep a close eye on his blood glucose. The thought process is that human meters read closer to accurate at lower numbers. Given the drop I'd be inclined to reduce his dosage. On my phone and have a hard time looking back so hopefully others will chime in on how much to reduce by.

Great job jumping in! One lucky pup you have.