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Sweet Lobo... January 31, 2016

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  • Sweet Lobo... January 31, 2016

    Hello everyone !,
    I am a new member and so it's a big relief to see so many other pet owners who are also in the same boat with out fur kids !

    My 9 1/2 year old catahoula was diagnosed as an " undiagnosed diabetic " on August 7th, we were scheduled for a glucose curve at our vet about 3 days after his initial visit , within those three days he vomited 2-3 times and slowly stopped drinking water , he also became severely lethargic and wanted nothing to do with any food . By the next morning after taking an anti nausea pill, he had little to no appetite and was extremely hesitant about drinking water , he was with my father while I was at work , and when I came home I brought the small dog sized portion of blue buffalo weight control pate , lamb and rice . He amazingly ate it from me while feeding him with a fork , but he looked scared while eating and was still acting hesitant . The next morning he drank no water at all , which was extremely scary since what initially brought him to his first vet visit 3 days prior was an over abundance of drinking water / frequent and long intervals of urinating till it was clear . ( each time we let him out he'd pee for at least 45seconds - a minuete and his urine had no coloring ) he would then come back inside and drink up to a cup or cup and a half of water . We took Lobo to a VCA all care in fountain valley California , and the prognosis was not good , they immediately began hydrating him via IV and performed blood tests/ ultrasound / X-ray , we had to wait a whole 24 hrs for them to decide to give him insulin , he was started on antibiotics as soon as he was admitted since we brought all of his lab results and paperwork from our vet visit a few days prior .

    The veterinarian confirmed pancreatitis , and started him on clavamox(antibiotic), Baytrill ( antibiotic) , Pepcid( for acid ) , cerenia( anti nausea), mertazipine( appetite inducer) , tramadol(pain), and Humalin (insulin)which they wrote on the paper as vetsulin ( I'm unsure why they would call it vetsulin, yet the package and bottle say Humalin )

    After $6,000.00 and 3 days in the vet , he was send home with a regimen of all the above medications , with the antibiotics/ pain pills to be given for 14 days , as well as the vetsulin / Humalin to be given every 12 hours twice a day at 20 units per dose , or 10 if he didn't eat much .

    In order to be on top of this as possible , I ordered the Alpha Trak 2 blood glucose monitor for dogs , the website that was the least expensive and most reliable is www.americandiabeteswholesale.com it was about $80.00 .

    We are now in the stages of just giving him the last two days of antibiotics , and for the last 5 days he's been eating at least 2 1/2 cups of food or more per day, with small portions in the afternoon due to the vet saying we should break up his meals to ease the pancreas back into functioning .
    I am concerned because the last several times we've checked his BG it was ranged from 312-600, with the most readings being about 300-high 400 range.

    I've put a call into the vet to see what she advises as far as insulin amount , he's doing very well with eating ( he's become picky ) and is also urinating maybe 4-5 at the most times a day, with color back in his urine , it also took him about a week to make a decent bowel movement ( that was dark and soft but not like diarrhea )

    We are feeding him extremely lean ground beef , prescriptive diet low fat wet food and the prescriptive diet low fat dry .

  • #2
    Re: 91/2 yr old catahoula w/ pancreatitis/ diabetes , DKA

    Hello and welcome! Sorry to hear about everything you and your pup are going through.

    I only have a minute, but wanted to make a quick comment - vetsulin and humulin are very different insulins. The concentration of insulin in the fluid is different, and for that reason, you need to use the correct type of syringe with each one. If the insulin is indeed vetsulin, you need to be using U-40 syringes. If the insulin is humulin, you need to be using U-100 syringes. This is very, very important. Please look at your bottle of insulin and your syringes and ensure you are using the correct ones.

    I'm sure other members will be jumping in to help you out too.

    Hope this helps get you started :-)
    Sparky Love, diagnosed March 5, 2014. Enrolled in Kinostat study to prevent cataract formation. Pancreatitis June 16, 2014 - hospitalized for 6 days in the ICU. Went to the Rainbow Bridge June 23, 2014. I love you very much, baby.

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    • #3
      Re: 91/2 yr old catahoula w/ pancreatitis/ diabetes , DKA

      hi and welcome

      the pancreas will take some time to heal and its a bit of a long process . always look for a change in behavior because relapse is possible

      you really dont want to force feed let you pup tell you how much can be fed . the problem is how much insulin to give . usually you can give a quarter of the dose without food but i would be more comfortable testing blood sugar making those adjustments which it sounds like you will be doing great !

      with a pet meter you cant just buy strips in town s pick up at least a 100 . you will be testing quite a bit in the beginning most meters just give a starting pack of 10 you might use that in a day

      there is an alternative to humulin which is novolin under the reloin brand at walmart they are both NPH insulin's and the price is about $ 25.00 you can also buy syringes there for a good price i would get the ones with half unit markings to fine tune dose adjustments . sometimes a half unit can make a big difference

      i am a bit concerned recieveing humulin and seeing vetsulin on the records make sure you have the correct syringes which is u-100 for humulin. vetsulin takes a very different syringe u-40 so you definitely dont want to have that mixed up

      sounds like your off to a good start

      i see cara beat me to the syringe description good catch
      Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
      Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

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      • #4
        Re: 91/2 yr old catahoula w/ pancreatitis/ diabetes , DKA

        Wow and thank you for the fast responses !!!!

        I double checked our syringes and they are the u-100 , good to know that such a small but important fact can confirm what was unclear on the paperwork the vet sent home !!! His insulin is Humalin, and I'm currently employed at Costco , the pharmacy there sells pet medications and items , and for a box of 100 syringes in 10 packs it's around $12.00, they said a bottle of Humalin will be $134.00 , knowing of any less costly but still effective generics is very much appreciated !!!! I've tested his blood about 2 hrs after eating and it's dropped from 525 to 417, his injection of 20 units was at 10 am and he also ate 1 1/2 cups of science diet prescriptive low fat dry mixed with low sodium no fat chiken broth and vegetable noodles .

        His eating style has been rough , for the first three days after bringing him home he only ate lean turkey and then refused it , and only ate lean ground beef . Since 8-14-15 he will now eat dry food and actually a few bites of the wet science diet low fat prescriptive blend ( that he wanted absolutely nothing to with while at the vet / at home the first few days )

        We will attempt to do a curve this week at home ( more strips for testing are on order ) with the hopes that his eating habits continue to get better , my dad and I are curious though about why his BG is staying in the high range ( at the vets with little food they got him down to 200- low 400, but mostly 200-300 range . We also wonder when we can stop feeding him multiple times throughout the day and see if a twice a day meal time will help regulate his BG better .

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        • #5
          Re: 91/2 yr old catahoula w/ pancreatitis/ diabetes , DKA

          How much does your dog weigh?

          It is quite typical to start dogs on a lower dose than is needed in the beginning. Vets merely have a starting point with insulin and all dogs are different so it is important not to go too high on dosage when he might actually need less in the end. Hypoglycemia is typically the biggest threat and with your dog not fully back to eating and still on meds, that is probably the reasoning. Sometimes, it also takes time for their bodies to adjust to having insulin. Raising the correct way is a slow process and will take some time. However, you do want to hopefully get him out of the 500's and 600's as he can relapse in DKA, so I would want to check for ketones and try to bring it down. You might want to call the vet to let him know his numbers are in the 500's.

          Twice a day feeding will help with blood glucose. But, my dog also went through pancreatitis and DKA and it took us a long time to recover. If the meals spaced out are helping, then you can always adjust your insulin but I think it might be better to stick with that schedule. It is a good sign he is eating so quickly. Maggie went weeks with ivs and very little food, and she relapsed at least twice. She ate chicken with broth for so long - I can barely stand the smell of boiling chicken now. But, if it gives you some hope, that was almost eight years ago.
          Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 91/2 yr old catahoula w/ pancreatitis/ diabetes , DKA

            Hello and welcome to you & Lobo to the best place on the planet for doggy diabetes information, advice and fellowship.

            Novolin insulin is not a generic, ... it's a branded NPH insulin like Humulin. They're like Chevy and Ford, both NPH insulins, just different brands, with subtle differences.

            Good luck on your diabetic journey with Lobo.
            Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dad’s loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.

            Comment


            • #7
              Morning folks !
              This morning before giving Lobo his insulin he actually ate 2 cups of dry low fat science diet ID , mixed with some chopped up chiken breast and some broth heated and poured over the food !

              That is the most that he's put down since being home / in the last 2 weeks !!! 🙀 we've had a normal looking bowel movement 💩😁 and things seem to be the best they've been !

              His weight it about 112 pre diagnosis and while we haven't weighed him recently I would say he's at about 100-106 lbs , since his hips are so weak the weight loss is a blessing in disguise ( as long as it's healthy ) it doesn't seem to be a drastic dip in weight with the way his eating habits have been.
              I put in a call to the vet and let her know about his readings we've been receiving and she said that due to his vital signs falling back into place she's relieved to see that the pancreatitis seems to not be affecting him at all or very little .
              She suggested we switch to the twice a day feeding schedule and we got the green light to do a curve at home , which we will perform on Thursday ( I needed to order more test strips ) .

              The fact that many of you folks have been dealing with this for years is a Big beacon of hope , many peoples jaws drop when they hear about the finances that are involved in the recovery of this whole process , and it's heartbreaking to know that many owners out there can't see past the rough spots to understand that a little bit of consistent work can give your pet their life back !

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              • #8
                Re: 91/2 yr old catahoula w/ pancreatitis/ diabetes , DKA

                Here's the scoop on the Novolin / Humulin stuff. Walmart's ReliOn house brand is Novolin for $24.88 a vial.

                http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6400


                Last edited by farrwf; 08-18-2015, 05:48 PM.
                Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dad’s loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ok , awesome that's a way less expensive alternative , I'll have to as the vet !, and just so I understand you clearly , the ReliOn is the same as Humalin ? His bottle is 10 ml (100 units per ml )

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 91/2 yr old catahoula w/ pancreatitis/ diabetes , DKA

                    Originally posted by lobosmom1 View Post
                    Ok , awesome that's a way less expensive alternative , I'll have to as the vet !, and just so I understand you clearly , the ReliOn is the same as Humalin ? His bottle is 10 ml (100 units per ml )
                    It is the same type of insulin made by a different company. Most of our dogs didn't see a lot of difference with it. you may want to start with a slightly lower dose until you see.

                    Walmart usually contracts with one company and offers the "N" insulin at a reasonable price. In our 3 1/2 years of doggy diabetes Walmart had Humulin N at the beginning and Novolin N at the end.
                    Jenny: 6/6/2000 - 11/10/2014 She lived with diabetes and cushings for 3 1/2 years. She was one of a kind and we miss her.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Judi View Post
                      It is the same type of insulin made by a different company. Most of our dogs didn't see a lot of difference with it. you may want to start with a slightly lower dose until you see. Walmart usually contracts with one company and offers the "N" insulin at a reasonable price. In our 3 1/2 years of doggy diabetes Walmart had Humulin N at the beginning and Novolin N at the end.

                      Okay great ! Thank you for the clarification !!! I'm leaving for a trip so it will just be my dad with lobo for the week , and were about half way through the bottle , so I don't want to run out while I'm gone !!!! He takes 20 dose twice a day , so it seems like a bottle will last roughly 1 month

                      . I'd also like to report this morning an hour after eating 1 2/3 cups hills ID low fat dry with 1/2 cup low sodium no fat chiken broth mixed with water ( to dilute salt ) his gb tested at 397 !!! Which is the lowest it's been in 3 days ! .
                      We are looking forward to performing our first curve Friday with hopes were getting closer to regulation !!!

                      I can't say it enough , it's wonderful that this forum is so active with people who have and have had diabetic fur kids !!! As many say , priceless information and sense of community !!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 91/2 yr old catahoula w/ pancreatitis/ diabetes , DKA

                        Originally posted by lobosmom1 View Post
                        Morning folks !
                        This morning before giving Lobo his insulin he actually ate 2 cups of dry low fat science diet ID , mixed with some chopped up chiken breast and some broth heated and poured over the food !

                        That is the most that he's put down since being home / in the last 2 weeks !!! �� we've had a normal looking bowel movement ���� and things seem to be the best they've been !

                        His weight it about 112 pre diagnosis and while we haven't weighed him recently I would say he's at about 100-106 lbs , since his hips are so weak the weight loss is a blessing in disguise ( as long as it's healthy ) it doesn't seem to be a drastic dip in weight with the way his eating habits have been.
                        I put in a call to the vet and let her know about his readings we've been receiving and she said that due to his vital signs falling back into place she's relieved to see that the pancreatitis seems to not be affecting him at all or very little .
                        She suggested we switch to the twice a day feeding schedule and we got the green light to do a curve at home , which we will perform on Thursday ( I needed to order more test strips ) .

                        The fact that many of you folks have been dealing with this for years is a Big beacon of hope , many peoples jaws drop when they hear about the finances that are involved in the recovery of this whole process , and it's heartbreaking to know that many owners out there can't see past the rough spots to understand that a little bit of consistent work can give your pet their life back !
                        What a great update!! I bet you have a smile on your face!!
                        Mel: My monster is Vinny! He's a black lab, diagnosed with diabetes June 21, 2013. His birthdate was celebrated the last weekend of May. He left this world on July 27, 2018, he was 12 years old.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I totally do , ear to ear !!! Last night we tested his gb and it was in the high 300's , but still lower than the last few days , so that with the regular feeding of 1 2/3 to 2 cups of food seems to be working !!!
                          My only other concern is a raw spot on his elbow , it was there at the vet and got a little gooey then scabbed over , but yesterday the scab was hanging off and we had raw gooey skin underneath ! ,
                          I covered it with neosporin ( since it's in a spot he can't lick ) and tips or info on these things , I'm worried because diabetics in general have a longer / harder time healing !

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 91/2 yr old catahoula w/ pancreatitis/ diabetes , DKA

                            I haven't noticed that diabetic dogs heal any slower than usual - I think that is more of a human thing but I suppose it could be hampered. I figure if your dog has some kind of skin condition like dry skin, then it might be worse with diabetes. It kind of depends on their immune system. Maggie(my dog) has pretty bad allergies and she was bit by a copperhead snake when she was about a year old so it really messed up her immune system. So, her skin can get bad.
                            Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So within the last 2 days (of which my dog has been with my father , lobos BG level has risen again . I tested him at 300pm this afternoon and it was at 670, I tested him again this evening after feeding at 10 pm , so about midnight and it was at 679 !!!! My dad said he urinated about 5 times or so today , but has been his cheerfull self. He was also a lot more active today , jogging about in the back yard . I'm just worried about the rise in his BG , it seemed like things were getting into a regular pattern , than I leave for two days and it goes crazy ?!

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