New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

[Barley_Dog]

We're less than two weeks into this journey and I'm already feeling a bit helpless and overwhelmed. Barley (11.5 year old black lab mix) was diagnosed with diabetes at her vet's office after the vet found glucose in her urine and did a further test resulting in a 465 glucose reading. Okay, we can do this...

So we started her on 15 units of Humulin 2x a day (Barley weighs around 60 pounds but is underweight and needs to put on some lbs). After a couple of days the glucose test at the vet had her down to 254. So they adviced we up the dosage to 16 units 2x/day.

We received our AlphaTrak monitor last Thursday and tested at home before dinner (182) 2 hours later (369) and then 2 hours later (283). The vet suggested keeping her at 16 and running a full curve.

Sunday was quite a let down with the following levels:

7:45a - 329
10:00am - 371
Noon - 544
2:00 - 473
7:00 - 411
9:00 - 470
11:00 - 430

Obviously I have a call into the vet, but in my research it looks like this could be anything from Somogyi, to Cushing's to who knows what. I love and hate the internet for all the information that we can access.

Just curious what the early days were like for some of you and how you learned to separate reality from an edge-of-the-cliff mentality.

Thanks.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

Hi and welcome to you and Barley

Just wondering if a curve was done on 15 units?

16 iu isnt a lot but could be too much insulin causing the higher numbers in your curve. Good going on your first one!

The starting dose for a 60 lb dog would be around 12 units

I, d submit your curve to the vet and ask if 16 is too much insulin?

Mo

[CraigM]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

7:45a - 329
10:00am - 371
Noon - 544
2:00 - 473
7:00 - 411
9:00 - 470
11:00 - 430

Obviously I have a call into the vet, but in my research it looks like this could be anything from Somogyi, to Cushing's to who knows what. I love and hate the internet for all the information that we can access.
.

Welcome to the forum.
At what times did you feed & inject? Many pups can have a rather large jump in BGs for 2-3 hours after a meal. My Annie could easily increase by more than 100 points after a meal, and only come down after about 6 hours. If this is the case with Barley, possibly a change in diet, or insulin might help. A full curve, from meal-to-meal would be helpful.

Don't get discouraged with an "off" (bad) curve. Things sometimes just happen and if you tried more testing, things could look better.

In case you haven't read, many of us use Novolin-N instead of Humulin-N (pretty much the same type of insulin: NPH. Walmart has a contract to sell Novolin-N for $25, probably much less expensive than what you payed for Humulin-N. Syringes are also less expensive at Walmart than at most other stores.

Craig

[amydunn19]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

Hi and welcome to you and Barley! This is a great place to be.

First, to address your concerns, the numbers fluctuating in the beginning is very normal and to be expected. When you change a dose, it needs time to "settle" before you start upping the dose again. Generally, with any change of dose, his body may respond to the insulin right away, then begin to go up slowly again as his body becomes accustomed to it. This is part of the process. No reason to start worrying about other things just yet. The curves you will be running will start to shed some light on how effective the dose will be for him.

Most vets do start a tad lower than yours did as it is best to start low and slowly build up to the dose he needs. The reasoning is you don't want to pass it by by increasing too quickly and get in an overdose situation. However, I think you are probably ok. Another factor may be that if the tests were in the vet's office where there is likely some anxiety, the numbers may be a little off. Anxiety can affect numbers. Usually, dogs are higher at the vet than at home but I have a weirdo dog who goes lower at the vet's when she is under durress.

My biggest suggestion is to take a deep breath and understand the process takes time. Impatience will get you in trouble - I tell you this from experience. The really outstanding thing is you have taken on testing and you have an excellent meter so you will get a handle on this quickly. We can always give you some feedback and support as we are all on the same road. Some of us are a little further down it.

What times are you feeding and what food are you feeding and how much? How many days have you been at 16 units?

[jesse girl]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

if you see with a dose adjustment upward and a deterioration in the numbers and it can just be higher numbers could point to to much insulin .

you could back down to the 15 units and see if there is an improvement . sometimes even larger dogs have needed allot less insulin so a starting dose can be a bit of a guesstimate

[tdpetunia]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

I am letting you now that this is a journey. I have been rejoining this wonderful forum after almost a year of my Milo was diagnosed with Diabetes. I have had an adventure on my own (see Milo - Seizures). I am coming out of quite an adventure from this last weekend. There is great advise and wisdom on this forum.

I feel everything you have and quite unsure of myself too! But with great support and a great vet we are slowly working our way back to normal.

Will check into your thread and wish you support.

[Barley_Dog]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

Thanks so much, everyone. We've been feeding/injecting at 7a/7p. We're migrating off her "old" food (Purina One Large Breed Adult) to a mix of home cooked chicken/veg + a dry and canned food.

I know we're early and I know I need to take a deep breath. I just want my girl to be healthy and enjoy doing the things she likes to do.

The vet actually recommended going up to 17 units 2x/day...I hate the feeling of not knowing what to do/what's best for Barley.

[CraigM]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

We're migrating off her "old" food (Purina One Large Breed Adult) to a mix of home cooked chicken/veg + a dry and canned food.
.

Remember, most think exactly repeatable meals can be important in regulation. I use a food scale to weigh out Annie's kibble because I don't think measuring cups are repeatable enough. I know a few that home cook weigh out each ingredient for each meal. Barley might not be so critical, but it's something to remember if you see big fluctuations in his BG.

Craig

[drmvz]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

Hello,
You are off to a great start with testing and injections etc. Does your pup have any other known medical conditions, on any meds, has urine been checked for any signs of infection?
Based on your one curve it does not seem like somogyi is of any concern. Going to 17 units seems like the thing to do...and that is still not a heavy dose. I'd go to 17 units for 4 or 5 days and do a curve. In the meantime you can certainly do spot checks. I'd check pre meal/injection am/pm and 4-6 hours post the am injection - if you can.
Mike

[ChuChu]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

Good morning everyone,

I too am new to this and it has been very hard to see my dog not be his normal self. I wasn't sure where to post this.

I have a newly diagnosed 5 year old mix dog (Chihuahua, unknown)

He is 24 pounds and receiving 5 units of Humulin N at 6 am and 6 pm.

I also liquefy 2 vitamins and syringe feed those. As well as mix enzymes and probiotics into the little bit of food he eats. (Boiled Chicken and rice)

His sugar when checked by the vet on sunday stays between 350 and 400

I am going crazy trying to get him to eat. He was hospitalized on 2/22/2014 with ketoacidosis. received IV fluids and insulin. I picked him up from the animal ER 2/24/2014 and took him to the Vet office where they kept him another 6 days on and off with IV fluids, antibiotics, insulin. Now that he is home, he is still very lethargic. I practically have to drag him out of his bed to take him to go pee. His appetite comes and goes. Last night and this morning, the only thing he will eat is baby food. (Chicken and rice flavor). I syringe feed him as he is even too tired to stand up. I wait 30 mins and give him his injections. I know not even 2 weeks have passed by but I am devastated and I don't know if this is normal? Also, is it okay to give him unflavored pedialyte? ANY feedback and advise is appreciated. I am working closely with the vet but he said that at this point we have to wait and see if he improves. Please help.

[amydunn19]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

I created you a thread to talk about your dog and pst your questions and concerns:
http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5580
I named it Chu Chu new diagnosis - I wasn't sure what your dog's name so let me know if you want to change it.

Good morning everyone,

I too am new to this and it has been very hard to see my dog not be his normal self. I wasn't sure where to post this.

I have a newly diagnosed 5 year old mix dog (Chihuahua, unknown)

He is 24 pounds and receiving 5 units of Humulin N at 6 am and 6 pm.

I also liquefy 2 vitamins and syringe feed those. As well as mix enzymes and probiotics into the little bit of food he eats. (Boiled Chicken and rice)

His sugar when checked by the vet on sunday stays between 350 and 400

I am going crazy trying to get him to eat. He was hospitalized on 2/22/2014 with ketoacidosis. received IV fluids and insulin. I picked him up from the animal ER 2/24/2014 and took him to the Vet office where they kept him another 6 days on and off with IV fluids, antibiotics, insulin. Now that he is home, he is still very lethargic. I practically have to drag him out of his bed to take him to go pee. His appetite comes and goes. Last night and this morning, the only thing he will eat is baby food. (Chicken and rice flavor). I syringe feed him as he is even too tired to stand up. I wait 30 mins and give him his injections. I know not even 2 weeks have passed by but I am devastated and I don't know if this is normal? Also, is it okay to give him unflavored pedialyte? ANY feedback and advise is appreciated. I am working closely with the vet but he said that at this point we have to wait and see if he improves. Please help.

[Monsters Momma]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

Thanks so much, everyone. We've been feeding/injecting at 7a/7p. We're migrating off her "old" food (Purina One Large Breed Adult) to a mix of home cooked chicken/veg + a dry and canned food.

I know we're early and I know I need to take a deep breath. I just want my girl to be healthy and enjoy doing the things she likes to do.

The vet actually recommended going up to 17 units 2x/day...I hate the feeling of not knowing what to do/what's best for Barley.

Hi and Welcome!

Believe me when I say, all of us have felt overwhelmed at one point or another! You will get through it and so will Barley. You just need to take it slow. "This is a marathon, not a sprint." My favorite comment from this forum!

How long was Barley on 16 units before doing the curve? Honestly, since you haven't finished "migrating" to a different food, I'm not sure I would take the vets advice right now. Until you have the food and insulin together and can do a curve based on that, I'd be hesitate to increase the insulin. Just my opinion, but it's based on my lab and how much food is affecting his bg right now.

You will get this, you are already ahead of most by testing at home and finding us! Hang in there and don't forget to breathe.
Mel

[Barley_Dog]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

Thanks again - I do know this is a marathon, and it helps to hear from others who have been through this.

Barley was on 16 units for 10 days; I will definitely do a spot check while we're up to 17 before doing another curve this weekend.

She has several other (relatively minor) ailments, including:
- Light UTI diagnosed at the same visit as diabetes and is on medication
- Hypothyroidism: taking Soloxine 2x/day
- Incontinence: taking Proin 1x/day

She also takes several supplements, including Optagest, SAMe and glucosamine.

There's a lot going on in her body all at once and I know I need to calm down. It's just so hard when they rely on us for everything!

Thanks again to the great contributors here - this is really helping with my peace of mind. I look forward to learning from your experiences and really appreciate the time taken to deal with slightly hysterical newbies!

[Barley_Dog]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

Hi Everyone - thanks again for the support and information. We're now about a month into the diabetes diagnoses and treatment and I still feel a bit helpless.

We had a big setback last week when Barley had a bad reaction to antibiotics to treat a UTI. She stopped eating for a couple of days. We're now on track with eating, but her glucose readings are sky high while we treat the UTI with Baytril. It seems like this is common - do you guys have any experience with this?

Also we just switching from Humulin to Novolin (from Walmart) - when you make the switch do you notice any difference in the amount of insulin you administer?

Barley is now up to 19 units 2x/day and we're feeding her Nutrisca. She weighs about 58 pounds (should be closer to 62).

Additional meds include Proin for urinary incontinence, Soloxine for hypothyroidism and Baytril for the UTI.

I feel like every time we take one step forward (get a good reading either in the high 100s or low-mid 200s) we take several steps back (today's reading of 723 - the highest we've tracked). I know she was just super sick and I need to be patient, but I want my girl to feel better and I want to fix what's wrong with her.

[momofdecker]

Re: New to this and Feeling Overwhelmed

Quick question, are you giving straight up glucosamine and if yes, when are you giving it? I ask because we tried the human grade glucosamine with my boy and noted an immediate rise in bg. We had to switch to cosequin and found that didn't cause a rise. The cosequin, of course, was much more costly.