Angus the Westie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Angus the Westie

We find that vet advice on this type of thing varies. I'd say about half the vets opt for No Food No Insulin prior to a procedure and others opt for No Food Some Insulin - usually anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 of the usual dose.

I think generally 1/2 the usual dose without food is too risky unless you have experience with how much insulin your dog can handle without food.

1/4 of the dose is usually safe but you can also give less than that or none... it's really up to you and the vet to decide.

As Craig mentioned, missing one meal and injection is a pretty minor blip in the grand scheme of things. It also depends, to me, on how tight the regulation currently is. If the blood sugar is currently high all day, I'm more interested in getting some insulin in there.

We had a lot of experience with Chris, who could get 1/3 to 1/2 his usual dose if he didn't eat. But he also tended to get low blood sugar at the vet so for a procedure, I would have cut it quite a bit more. One of the worst low blood sugar episodes he had was after an eye vet appointment that coincided with his lowest blood sugar time of day.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Angus the Westie

I saved a good resource on the various procedures used to resolve corneal ulcers that don't want to heal as our diabetic, Chris, had this condition and had several large ulcers. One covered nearly his entire cornea. It healed up quickly, though, after a keratotomy.

I will have to dig up the copy, but the Wiki page on it seems pretty comprehensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corneal_ulcers_in_animals

I see Westies are listed as at risk for this corneal ulcers that don't like to heal... Westies seem to be at risk for a lot of things!

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Angus the Westie

Okay, I uploaded it:

www.k9diabetes.com/CornealUlcerPaper.pdf

[tonyr]

Re: Angus the Westie

Thank you ever so much Natalie and amydunn19 for your information.
Natalie you are amazing, I knew you would help.

Anyhow I am now fully armed with the right questions to ask.

After reading everything I decided to give the hospital a ring and asked who was performing the procedure.
I was given his name and he is a leading opthalmogist who other vets cross refer to , so that is the best I could hope for.
I have asked reception could they please ask the person concerned to give me a call today as I want him to be aware of a few facts concerning Angus and his diabetes so he is fully informed.
That is a great deal of worry lifted from my shoulders, thank you all once again for your guidance.

[amydunn19]

Re: Angus the Westie

One other thing that might put you at ease is most of the eye surgeries are done on older dogs with special needs. To be accredited, these guys have to perform tons of procedures. Both of my eye surgeons assured me that geriatric diabetics make up 90% of their patients.

[amholmesy]

Re: Angus the Westie

Hi there Angus the Westie

I have not been on the forum for a long time but it's a fantastic forum with a lot of great people who got me and CJ through his diabetes .CJ is still going strong ... Can you believe it after almost 4 years . It will be 4 years beg of April .
He had a corneal ulcer a few months after being diagnosed and my vet ... Who is also a great friend now did the surgery where they sewed the inner eye lid . This stays closed for about 3 weeks and you gave to put lots of drops in the eye 5-6 times a day but it totally works . CJ had a cone on to stop him scratching his eye and he got used to it . It's a really successful procedure so don't stress it looks worse than it is but you must do it.
CJ still has great sight in both eyes and us going really well. His bg levels can be erratic but I have learnt to cope and adjust his insulin and food . He gets fed 5-6 times a day due to pancreatitis but he is still enjoying life running around and playing and he travels everywhere with us . He flies twice to three times a year from South Africa to France and to Ireland . Hebisvthe most amazing dog and he never complains !
So you must fix the corneal ulcer it's not a big deal really . CJ got through it no problem and if you have a good bet you won't have a problem !

Wishing you lots of luck and don't give up I didn't with CJ and he is still going strong - he's 12 now !

Anne Marie and CJ

[tonyr]

Re: Angus the Westie

Hi Anne Marie
Thanks for your kind words, is cj a westie, its hard to tell from the small pic, but the face looks right.
The vet did not ring me back today, I guess he was to busy.
Anyway I will take every precaution and bring food, insulin and meter to my appointment and insist I check his blood glucose before I leave him there.

Did cj have pancreatitis from the beginning or did it slowly develop.
How do you work in 5-6 meals a day with injections ?.
I know Angus will cope, its us weak humans who can't.

[tonyr]

Re: Angus the Westie

I decided to give Angus 2 units of his normal 9 and no food this morning.
He had been up most of the night as was my other dog who kept waking me up. (they know something is going on).
Anyway I tested Angus's blood sugar at 0920 this morning and was shocked to see it reading 15.88, I was expecting around 5 as his last curve had shown. I guess it must be because he is feeling a bit anxious and also not sleeping much last night.

Anyhow I took him in at 1020 as asked and saw the Opthalmogist around 1040.
I told him what I had done regards his insulin and what his blood reading was at 0920.
I asked him what was to be done as it was explained to me rather vaguely by the previous vet.
He put a local anaesthetic in his eye followed by some dye and shown me the problem.
He explained what has happening is Angus's cornea should heal very quickly, but his isn't, which is probably breed related he said.
He called it an SCCED or Boxers eye as it is commonly known.

What he intends to do is under full anaesthetic is cut away the detached surface of the cornea and lightly puncture the exposed surface to provide a key.
Then the new cells have something to hold onto, and they then cover this with a temporary contact lens, held in place by a small stitch.
He said this has a success rate of about 97-98%, so it looks good.

He said he will call me to pick him up in a couple of hrs.
I asked him will they monitor his blood glucose and he said yes, also they will offer him some diabetic food when he comes round.
They did not want what I had brought with me.

[Judi]

Re: Angus the Westie

this doctor sounds good. lets hope it all goes smoothly. Most vets keep the fast acting insulin on hand if they need it. I think my sister's dog had that done to his eye and it sounded scary but went smoothly. Judi

[tonyr]

Re: Angus the Westie

Hi Judi
Just picked him up and he his out for the count.
I was told to give him no further insulin and half his food which he has just eaten.
I am to keep him warm and let him rest.
I take him back to be checked in a weeks time.
I will do a couple of random tests just for my own peace of mind.

[jesse girl]

Re: Angus the Westie

yay for angus and let the healing process begin

hope to see some improvement soon

[Eddie]

Re: Angus the Westie

I'm glad it all seems to have gone smoothly. Hope he feels better soon!
Antonia

[Judi]

Re: Angus the Westie

whew. give him a pat from me. bet you are glad to have him home and he ate!

[tonyr]

Re: Angus the Westie

Angus just woke up and he came hobbling up to me panting.
I checked his blood levels and they were 3.38.
I immediately gave him a tablespoon of honey and 25mg of fothglade high meat content soft food, aftr 5 mins or so he stopped panting.
I am going to check his levels again in 15 mins.
He is currently dozing again.

[Eddie]

Re: Angus the Westie

That's a good catch! When Eddie is really low I find he comes up very fast with honey and food so testing in a little while is a good idea. Bear in mind the honey will only work for a very short time so there may be another little drop when that works through his system.
Antonia