Weird first curve newly diagnosed

[rspillman88]

Hello all,
My 10 year old lab and border collie mix "molly", was just diagnosed two weeks ago with Diabetes. The only symptoms she as showing was increased water intake, Excessive urination and sticky urine. She is 49.5 pounds now and has always been 52 pounds.

Our vet put her on Vetsulin at 10 units twice per day. I had her on victor food and realized it wasn't grain free so 4 days ago I switched her to TOTW Roasted fowl. I just did my first curve yesterday and will be posting the curve below.

My question is: Why are her levels still so high? and, why are they dipping the lowest at 12 hours? Also, I realize the TOTW is higher in carb with potatoes so I am thinking of switching her to Fromm Lamb and Lentil or Evo?[/IMG]

[CraigM]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

Hello all,
My 10 year old lab and border collie mix "molly", was just diagnosed two weeks ago with Diabetes. The only symptoms she as showing was increased water intake, Excessive urination and sticky urine. She is 49.5 pounds now and has always been 52 pounds.

Our vet put her on Vetsulin at 10 units twice per day. I had her on victor food and realized it wasn't grain free so 4 days ago I switched her to TOTW Roasted fowl. I just did my first curve yesterday and will be posting the curve below.

My question is: Why are her levels still so high? and, why are they dipping the lowest at 12 hours? Also, I realize the TOTW is higher in carb with potatoes so I am thinking of switching her to Fromm Lamb and Lentil or Evo?[/IMG]

Welcome to the forum. I only have a few minutes, but wanted to welcome you.

10 units, twice a day, for a 50 pound dog is often a STARTING dosage. Diabetes will likely take weeks, if not months, to get into "regulation". Typical procedure is to give a dosage / food combo for a week, and then do a curve. Evaluate the curve and make small adjustments, then repeat the following week. Looks like you tried to post the results of your tests, but they didn't show on the forum. Could you just post them (time and meter readings) in columns? We would like to see the lowest reading.

I think you said the lowest number was around the 12th hour? That isn't uncommon. My Annie had her lowest reading typically between the 9th and 12th hour. Yes, text books, and diabetes literature, might show the lowest point on the curve at the mid-point (6th hour). The problem is that our dogs probably haven't read the text books! . A saying you will read here all the time is that every dog / situation is different.

I'm not familiar with the foods you mentioned, but pups here eat all sorts of diets. Probably the #1 thing most people look for is a food that is lower than average in fat. Of course we also want a food that the pup will eat! The best food, or prescription food, won't do much good if the dog won't eat it.

Oh, something I always want to verify is that a new diabetic is using the correct insulin syringe for the insulin being used (very important). You are using Vetsulin which is a U-40 insulin and you should be using U-40 syringes for proper dosing. Please look at the package of syringes and confirm they are marked U-40.

Got to run, but will look for you tomorrow.

Craig

[rspillman88]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

Welcome to the forum. I only have a few minutes, but wanted to welcome you.

10 units, twice a day, for a 50 pound dog is often a STARTING dosage. Diabetes will likely take weeks, if not months, to get into "regulation". Typical procedure is to give a dosage / food combo for a week, and then do a curve. Evaluate the curve and make small adjustments, then repeat the following week. Looks like you tried to post the results of your tests, but they didn't show on the forum. Could you just post them (time and meter readings) in columns? We would like to see the lowest reading.

I think you said the lowest number was around the 12th hour? That isn't uncommon. My Annie had her lowest reading typically between the 9th and 12th hour. Yes, text books, and diabetes literature, might show the lowest point on the curve at the mid-point (6th hour). The problem is that our dogs probably haven't read the text books! . A saying you will read here all the time is that every dog / situation is different.

I'm not familiar with the foods you mentioned, but pups here eat all sorts of diets. Probably the #1 thing most people look for is a food that is lower than average in fat. Of course we also want a food that the pup will eat! The best food, or prescription food, won't do much good if the dog won't eat it.

Oh, something I always want to verify is that a new diabetic is using the correct insulin syringe for the insulin being used (very important). You are using Vetsulin which is a U-40 insulin and you should be using U-40 syringes for proper dosing. Please look at the package of syringes and confirm they are marked U-40.

Got to run, but will look for you tomorrow.

Craig

Thank you for for reply and for the welcome to the forum. I did make sure to use the correct U-40 syringes. and sorry the pic didn't show up but I will post results below. I think I'm just kind of in the paranoid stage with it now, trying to cram as much info about it as possible to make the best choices as possible. I guess I need to slow down a bit and see how she responds. Thank you for all the help.

I did her curve on Tuesday the 5th and I feed her 1 1/2 cups at 7am and 1 1/2 cups at 7pm with insulin 15 mins after she eats.

Time BG

7am---505
9am---566
11am--541
1pm----459
3pm----444
5pm----496
7pm----399

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

hey and welcome

one thing to do that i did with my Riliey is to inject right after food. wating raises bg
try that first before any other changes okay. wait 3 to 5 days do a curve to c any changes . i think u.ll find the blood sugar lowers.
your doing greAt
mo

[CraigM]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

Thank you for for reply and for the welcome to the forum. I did make sure to use the correct U-40 syringes. and sorry the pic didn't show up but I will post results below. I think I'm just kind of in the paranoid stage with it now, trying to cram as much info about it as possible to make the best choices as possible. I guess I need to slow down a bit and see how she responds. Thank you for all the help.

I did her curve on Tuesday the 5th and I feed her 1 1/2 cups at 7am and 1 1/2 cups at 7pm with insulin 15 mins after she eats.

Time BG

7am---505
9am---566
11am--541
1pm----459
3pm----444
5pm----496
7pm----399

The good thing about the curve is that, percentage wise, there isn't a huge difference between the high and low.

As I mentioned, 10 units is frequently considered a starting dosage for a 50 pounder. Commonly, we figure 0.2 units per pound, twice a day. So, .2 X 50 = 10. At this time we really have no idea what the "correct" dosage will be: weekly curves is really the best way to move ahead.

Your vet will likely suggest an insulin increase. Many of us believe in small one unit increases because you don't want to overshoot the correct dosage. Actually, Molly's 399 is high enough that I might break with tradition and go to 12 units.

What brand of meter are you using? There is a difference between dog and human blood and a human meter generally will read dog blood lower than true (that 399 could actually be 499+ if testing with a human meter). This difference isn't anything to worry about, many use human meters. They just realize the meter reading might be lower than true. We can talk more about meters in the future when the numbers get down into the 100s.

Craig

[rspillman88]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

hey and welcome

one thing to do that i did with my Riliey is to inject right after food. wating raises bg
try that first before any other changes okay. wait 3 to 5 days do a curve to c any changes . i think u.ll find the blood sugar lowers.
your doing greAt
mo

Okay I will definitely do that! Thank you for the advice!

[rspillman88]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

The good thing about the curve is that, percentage wise, there isn't a huge difference between the high and low.

As I mentioned, 10 units is frequently considered a starting dosage for a 50 pounder. Commonly, we figure 0.2 units per pound, twice a day. So, .2 X 50 = 10. At this time we really have no idea what the "correct" dosage will be: weekly curves is really the best way to move ahead.

Your vet will likely suggest an insulin increase. Many of us believe in small one unit increases because you don't want to overshoot the correct dosage. Actually, Molly's 399 is high enough that I might break with tradition and go to 12 units.

What brand of meter are you using? There is a difference between dog and human blood and a human meter generally will read dog blood lower than true (that 399 could actually be 499+ if testing with a human meter). This difference isn't anything to worry about, many use human meters. They just realize the meter reading might be lower than true. We can talk more about meters in the future when the numbers get down into the 100s.

Craig

Craig,
Thank you for replying, I just got an email from my vet after I replied earlier, and he is taking Molly to 12 units. So thank you for being spot on. I will do another curve in a week and see how she is reacting to the diet change and insulin increase. I will post results here.

I purchased and have been using the AlphaTrak 2. I knew a little about the lower readings with the human meters, so I just got the right one to be as close as possible. Hopefully with the increase in insulin and her diet stabilizing, we can see some lower numbers. Hopefully they remain stable as well!

[CraigM]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

Craig,
Thank you for replying, I just got an email from my vet after I replied earlier, and he is taking Molly to 12 units. So thank you for being spot on. I will do another curve in a week and see how she is reacting to the diet change and insulin increase. I will post results here.

I purchased and have been using the AlphaTrak 2. I knew a little about the lower readings with the human meters, so I just got the right one to be as close as possible. Hopefully with the increase in insulin and her diet stabilizing, we can see some lower numbers. Hopefully they remain stable as well!

Sounds like you are on the right track. Don't get discouraged, this takes time and you will probably run into things that just doesn't make sense

Does Molly have any other medical conditions, or takes any medications? Anything, and everything, can affect diabetes. Even things like some eye drops can make the numbers look strange.

Craig

[amydunn19]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

Sounds like you are on the right track. Just remember, this disease demands patience and sometimes things may not make sense initially but the more you test, the better you will get to know how your dog will handle diabetes. Patience and consistency are key!

[Monsters Momma]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

Hi and Welcome!
Sounds like you are certainly working through that 'panic stage' without much difficulty! There is a lot to take in, information-wise. Don't feel you have to become an expert in all of it right away! It will come, but honestly, I still go back and re-read different articles and posts after 4 years.

I agree with Craig and Mo, you're doing great, just breathe. This is a long process and there are no shortcuts. You have found a great place to ask questions and get support. The people here are awesome and live this diabetes thing every day. Hang in there and again, welcome to you and Molly!
Mel and Vinny

[rspillman88]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

Sounds like you are on the right track. Don't get discouraged, this takes time and you will probably run into things that just doesn't make sense

Does Molly have any other medical conditions, or takes any medications? Anything, and everything, can affect diabetes. Even things like some eye drops can make the numbers look strange.

Craig

Other than the diabetes, she is perfectly healthy and normal. No medications at all!

[rspillman88]

Re: Weird first curve newly diagnosed

Thank you everyone, definitely feel welcome here! Thanks for the advice and kind words as my Wife and I get adjusted to this!