Steph and Pallie

[corgipallie]

Re: Steph and Pallie

I know we had some Tramadol discussions on the old CC.net, but I can't remember what everyone's feedback was.

Pallie's having some rear-leg pain/weakness, whether it's Cushings, arthritis, the fact she's 12, etc.
So we are trying a 50mg Tramadol in the morning and evening.
For those who have used it, does it work right away, or does it take a few days for results to show? Has anyone used it for arthritis and/or old age pain?

Thanks!
Steph and Pallie the wonder-corgi(hound)

[Lulusmom]

Re: Steph and Pallie

Hi Steph,

Three out of five of my furkids have taken Tramadol for post surgical pain and it works very quickly. It made all them tired but it controlled the pain superbly. Lulu is a real panter when she is in pain and she was as calm as could be on Tramadol. I believe that other members have used Tramadol for severe arthritic pain and hopefully they will be along to share their experiences.

Usually a vet can tell the difference between arthritis and muscle weakness due to cushing's. Did you have xrays done and/or did the vet manipulate the joints? I personally would want to know which condition is causing the problem because if it is muscle weakness due to cushing's, Tramadol is not the answer. When was Pallie's adrenal hormones last tested and can you post the results?

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_tramadol.html

Glynda

[Carol G]

Re: Steph and Pallie

Hi Steph,

McGill (16-1/2 year old, Australian Cattle Dog mix with Atypical) is on a high dose of tramadol for his arthritis (50 mg 3 times a day) plus Previcox.

I saw a real improvement when we added the Tramadol to the NSAID (Deramaxx at the time). Our IM vet says that there is a combination effect with Tramadol & a NSAID.

He started out with the tramadol at 2 times a day and we upped it not too long ago. I think it really helps him a lot and I don't see any side effects. He has bloodwork done regularly to be sure the NSAID isn't causing any problems.

Little tip on the tramadol, ask your vet for a written Rx and get it filled at Wal-Mart or Costco. My cost went from $31 for 90 to $11 for 120.

I think the muscle weakness from his Atypical (which went undiagnosed for much too long) probably made the arthritis worse and now because of the arthritis, rebuilding the muscle is challenging -- not to mention his age.

Carol, Winnie (always), McGill & Atty Cat

[corgipallie]

Re: Steph and Pallie

Thanks for the Tramadol info. Hopefully it will work. My vet won't put Pallie on an NSAID because she's Atypical and thinks it will cause an ulcer, so Tramadol is our only option right now.

I do have to be careful with it because she's on SAMe, in her Denamarin for her liver. In humans it has caused seratonin syndrome, but my vet said there has not been any noted cases in dogs, but theoretically it could happen with high doses or long-term. So we obviously don't want that. He says to use it as needed. But with NSAIDs out of the picture, Tramadol is our only choice (aside from stopping the Denamarin). He is not concerned about seratonin syndrome happening. I hope he's right.

(and yes, I get it at the grocery store. $4!! I get her Benezapril there too for $4)

[Carol G]

Re: Steph and Pallie

That's interesting about the NSAID and Atypical because McGill is Atypical also (treated with Melatonin & Lingans only). He does take Pepcid AC as a precaution because he's on the NSAID. Why does your vet think the NSAID is more likely to cause an ulcer in an Atypical Cushings dog?

I just started McGill on SAMe for the arthritis and then I read about the seratonin syndrome. I had checked with the IM vet before starting him on the SAMe but once I read about the seratonin syndrome, I called the IM and asked specifically about it. He too wasn't concerned.

I will be watching to see how Pallie does.

Carol, Winnie (always), McGill & Atty Cat

[gpgscott]

Re: Steph and Pallie

Steph,

It is my experience that the NSAIDS are prescribed in doses way larger than needed for relief from symptoms. Me, I would start at 1/4 the recommended dose and work from there.

Adaquane is a good treatment, and when purchased online is not expensive.

When needed I give Moria Tramadol at 1/2 the recommended dose, and it works fine. A larger dose makes her more stupid than I am.

I have for the past 3 or so months been giving Moria ranatidine every morning (same as famantodine, pepcid, tagamet) and it is working well, she eats and is doing famously.

It is a balancing act with an elder. You and Pallie will figure it out.

Hope this is some help.

Scott

[corgipallie]

Re: Steph and Pallie

Carol,
I'm glad you checked with the IM about the SAMe and tramadol. That makes me feel better.

I'm not sure exactly what the link is between atypical and NSAIDs but my vet doesn't want Pallie on them due to the risk of an ulcer. If the tramadol works, we won't need an NSAID anyway.
I can vouch that I don't want Pallie on NSAIDs if her risk of stomach problems is high. I am on stomach medication because of NSAIDs that I have to take because other meds won't help me. I deal with it, but unless Pallie is really suffering (which thankfully she's not), I will follow my vet's advice for now.

The Pepcid AC definitely helps the stomach with NSAIDs!

I gave Pallie 1/2 a Tramadol tonight (25mg), and she played a little squeaky toy in the living room.

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Steph and Pallie

If there is a problem with Tramadol there is also acetaminophen/paracetamol. When Mia had an ear infection the vet suggested it for pain relief if necessary - a NSAID was contraindicated because if things had got that bad she would have been on pred anyway. The vet gave me, in writing, the dose the correct dose for Mia and the mg/kg dose in case I used another preparation. I never needed to use it but this is what the vet suggested and I got the impression they recommend it quite frequently.

I know it isn't normally recommended, presumably because they don't want people just popping Tylenol down their pets' throats willy-nilly but I gather it does work well for dogs. Acetaminophen/paracetamol is absolutely lethal for cats so that could be another reason it isn't used as a "pet med" to any great degree or at least it isn't officially mentioned a lot.

This is what it says about using it in dogs in the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol):

Although paracetamol is believed to have no significant anti-inflammatory activity, it has been reported to be as effective as aspirin in the treatment of musculoskeletal pain in dogs.[56] A paracetamol-codeine product (trade name Pardale-V)[57] licensed for use in dogs is available on veterinary prescription in the UK.[58] It should be administered to dogs only on veterinary advice. The main effects of toxicity in dogs is liver damage.[59] N-acetylcysteine treatment is efficacious in dogs when administered within a few hours of paracetamol ingestion.[56]

Alison

PS: Another thing that is great for "NSAID tummy" is Slippery Elm. After taking NSAIDS on and off for years for migraine I find that I not only have to take it "with food" as advised but am best using Slippery Elm as well with every dose. In fact, Slippery Elm works for me even on an empty stomach (I guess the Slippery Elm is "food" when it comes to stomachs and NSAIDS).

[BestBuddy]

Re: Steph and Pallie

Don't know about dogs but I have found ginger tablets help my NSAID tummy.
Jenny

[barney's mom]

Re: Steph and Pallie

I am a huge fan of Tramadol. When Barney's back flares up one Tramadol is usually all that is needed to set him right. He must have a huge tolerance for drugs though, he is more playful, and only rarely sleepy. There have been times where I have given him a Tramadol 50mg and a 5mg Valium and it doesn't seem to phase him mentally, but he does quit limping

I guess every dog is different. I keeping Barney away from the NSAIDS as long as possible.

CHeryl

[Squirt's Mom]

Re: Steph and Pallie

Hi Steph,

I'm sorry Pallie is hurting. It breaks my heart to see them in pain.

We use Tramadol here, too. Ruby uses it and so does Squirt, both as needed. Squirt weighs 14lbs and she gets 1/4 of a 50mg tablet and that usually does the trick for her. Ruby, at 50 lbs, gets 50-100mg. They can have those doses twice a day. So far, I have seen no problems with it at all.

I do have some thoughts on Pallie's legs, tho. One, Corgie's are built long like Doxy's so are prone to spinal problems, as I'm sure you know. Did your vet check to be sure this isn't something with her spine? A friend of mine has Corgie's and one of hers has real back troubles, so I couldn't help but think of this when I read about Pallie. Another thought, is the vet sure this is arthritis and not the Cushing's acting up? Does Pallie have any other cush signs showing up lately? I hate to bring this up, but remember that Atypical pups can become true cush pups with elevated cortisol. Also, has Pallie gained any weight recently? If she has, that with her long construction could be causing some of what you are seeing. As one with arthritis, I can tell you that losing weight is one of the best treatments but, dang! that's hard to do! Especially for one who loves food as much as I do!

I hope I am just being my usual worry-wart self and that all my concerns have been addressed. Since I know you are a great mom, I am sure you have already covered these bases plus for Pallie's pain but I just gotta mouth off sometimes.

Hope sweet Pallie is feeling better!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[corgipallie]

Re: Steph and Pallie

The tramadol is helping! I've been only giving her 1/2 to 1 50mg pill a day and it seems to help those legs/back of hers. She took Tramadol for her back last summer and it helped some then but then we didn't need it anymore, then she was back on it for her liver problem, and then off of it after the mass we found started shrinking.
Now,I suspect with her age now her legs and back might be a little more sore these days and her legs aren't helping her back obviously, and vice versa.
I just got back from the vet because she has some painful ear inflammation that I had to get some medicine for.
Poor Pallie. But I think we're on the upswing. I hope!!
We love you all!

[LuvMyMunchie]

Re: Steph and Pallie

Steph,

I sure hope Pallie is on the road to recovery with that ear inflammation too. Poor Pallie, it's bad enough to have the back and legs hurting...it's just plain adding insult to injury getting inflamed ears on top of it all. From one who knows....growing old along with the assorted things that come with it stinks sometimes!! Of course, I'll happily accept growing old as opposed to the alternative.

Sending some healing vibes for Pallie.....

Louise

[gpgscott]

Re: Steph and Pallie

I see Pallie has a new boat.

Hope you all are enjoying the pretty spring.

Scott

[forscooter]

Re: Steph and Pallie

Poor Pallsters!!! Sending healing thoughts for those ears! Did you tell her it comes with being a hound-dog???

And the back/leg connection...poor Pallie is built like a suspension bridge of sorts too...kind of like the boys....and it does get strained sometimes. I am glad the Tramadol is helping!

Big slobby kissies coming from her hound bro!!!! And me too!!! LOL!