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Old 03-01-2010, 09:43 AM
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Smile Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Hello Everyone,

I have an 8yr. old mini schnauzer, Gretel, who was diagnosed with diabetes one month ago. Presently she weighs 18.5 lbs., but normal for her is around 20 lbs. As of this writing, she is still not regulated, although the vet has done 4 curves plus a few spot checks, and she is up to 8 units of NPH insulin twice a day. Her lowest reading so far was 250 but most of them have been in the 3 and 400 range. Complicating things is the fact that she just had bladder stone surgery a week and a half ago. (This is her 3rd bladder surgery in less than 2 years.) Tomorrow she goes to get the stitches out and will stay for the day for another curve.

She has been on wd canned and dry dog food (I mix them), plus I add to her food Tricitrate syrup which is to keep her urine ph at an acceptable level to try to prevent stone formation. It's been a real balancing act with her, because the food/medicine that helps one condition isn't usually good for the other. She also was recently diagnosed with a disc problem in her neck that was causing her pain. She seems to have recovered from that, at least for now, but she was on meds for that as well.

Through all of this, Gretel has remained a cheerful and energetic little girl. She takes the injections quite well. I can tell she doesn't exactly want it, but she will come right to me when I call her, and as soon as I give it to her I praise her greatly and give her a small treat (which is compatible with the wd dog food.) She gets no other food or treats throughout the day.

I do have a question that may not seem all-important but I'm curious as to what feeding schedule works best for others. Since they must be 12 hours apart, at some point in time there may be a conflict with your own schedule, and I'm wondering how you handle those occasions. I've always tried to stay at exactly 12 hrs. apart (give or take 5 mins.), but is there any room for leeway - like maybe 20 mins. or even 1/2 hour? (Just on the rare occasion, obiously not all the time.) Right now I'm feed her at 6:30am and 6:30pm, with the insulin following immediately after she finished eating. I chose this schedule because I thought that if we had plans for the evening we wouldn't have to rush back at a certain time to feed her. However tonight I have a situation where I need to leave the house by 6:15, so over the last two days I have inched her feeding back by 6 or 7 mins. each so that by tonight she'll be due for her feeding and insulin by 6:15 (but I don't necessarily want to stay that early). Would love to hear how others handle this type of situation.

Again, I'm thrilled to have found this forum. I'm sure all of us wish we didn't have to be here, but it sure is nice to know you can help one another out with questions and just with support in general. Thanks to all who respond!

Carolyn
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:06 AM
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k9diabetes k9diabetes is offline
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Default Re: Feeding schedule question

Hi Carolyn,

Welcome to you and Gretel!

Life happens We all have had to adjust on occasion because of a scheduling conflict. A half an hour should not be a problem. We occasionally had an extreme circumstance that required us to delay longer and if that happens you can adjust things back to normal in 20 minute or 30 minute increments over a day or two to reduce how much difference there is.

So if I'm late an hour tonight, I could give it half hour later in the morning and then at the usual time that evening and be back on track.

Hope that makes sense - I'm feeling a little disjointed today!

Gretel has a lot going on! When things settle from the surgery and the neck, you may see better blood sugar. Pain and inflammation can both raise blood sugar levels.

Natalie
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: Feeding schedule question

Thank you Natalie. I'm trying so hard to do everything "by the book". It's been a rough 2 yrs. with all her issues and I want so badly for her to feel well and to know that I'm doing everything I can to help her. I wouldn't want to do anything that might be detrimental to her. Again, thanks for your response, it did help.

Carolyn
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Old 03-01-2010, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: Feeding schedule question

Carolyn,
Just wanted to say welcome! Sorry to hear about Gretel's surgery. Glad she's on the mend. What a sweet picture
Take care,
Patty
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Old 03-01-2010, 02:15 PM
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CarolW CarolW is offline
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Arrow Re: Feeding schedule question

And so, we get to meet ANOTHER super-great Human Dog-Mum! Wow; Carolyn, you have REALLY had your hands full.

I just loved your question about scheduling meals. I'm so compulsive I go to the minute - pretty much, anyway. And because I use my computer an awful lot, and also, I'm wildly absent-minded, I put my computer to work to tell me what to do when. For me, this is a great blessing, because my computer won't shut up until I check off the task I'm supposed to be doing!

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/calendarscope.php

I think it DOES make a difference to the dog - our bodies - and dogs' bodies - can be quite time-sensitive, in a biological sense. I'm so compulsive about it that I start changing times, a little at a time, two weeks before we go to Daylight (or Summer) time, and two weeks before we go back to Standard time. I change 15 minutes a day, for three days at a time, and set that all up on my CalendarScope program. Today is my first day of time-change. I'll actually be on Daylight time FIVE DAYS before it arrives!

But I can do that, because I'm long-retired, and always at home. I don't recommend my method to anybody. Some ultra-compulsive people who are always home might like it.

Dogs can easily adjust, say 15 minutes, 20 minutes, even half an hour - the main concern would be whether insulin doses might overlap, or fail to cover, say 13 hours, rather than the 12 they're designed for.

About regulation, that does often take time, and with all Gretel has been through, it may still take a little more time. I think you're getting very good numbers for the situation.

Kumbi says, Hi Gretel! and he adds licks and wags.

Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:13:37 (PST)
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Feeding schedule question

Hi Carolyn,

I used the 6am and 6pm schedule for Buddy because like you we were up early and if we wanted or needed to go out in the evening it didn't mess anything up. There were occasions when I was an hour late or early with the injection and in the grand scheme of thing it didn't make much of a difference to BG's. If you know early enough you can make those small 10-15 minutes up in the days before.

Jenny
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel - Injection problems brewing!

Thank you so much, everyone, for your speedy responses.

Marg, I really think I will stick with the One Touch meter. With all other expenses considered, why add another one if you don't need to? And, I believe maybe I'll try next time with just the lancet. I'm nervous about it - so afraid it will really hurt her, but I won't know till I try, will I?

Carol, you raised a very good point about the recall. I should know better, because when I was training Gretel (and also a sweet poodle/terrier named Pepper that we had for 17 yrs.) I always called her to me for the good stuff and went to HER if it was something she probably wasn't going to like, or if she wouldn't come when called, I would go and get her - it was such a basic part of her training.

I must say that thought had been lurking around in the back of my mind when I was calling her to come for her insulin injection, but I rationalized it by telling myself if was ok because she would very quickly be getting a yummy treat. In fact when I call her, I tell her to come for a treat, it's just that while she's staring at the treat container, I'm giving the injection! Thank you so much for bringing that to my attention though, I'm going to do things a little differently from this point on - definitely don't want to ruin the recall.

(Now, when I attempted to test her today, I went to her, didn't call her to me.)

Lori, I must commend you for jumping right into the home testing arena so quickly! My role model!!

Again, thanks to all of you for your usual terrific support. I'll keep you posted on our progress.

Carolyn
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:13 AM
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Question Trouble brewing at injection time

Hello everyone!

It has been about 6 weeks since Gretel (my 8 yr. old mini schnauzer) was diagnosed. Up until a few days ago, she was taking the injections like a champ. The first week I gave them to her she came to me after eating without me even needing to call her to me. Then she gradually decided maybe she really didn't want to come, but when I called her she came without hesitation. This past week she has gotten more and more hesitant to come, she has jerked several times and yelped once when the needle went it. Of course this isn't helping me, because it makes me more nervous to give it, which I know isn't good. We seem to be doing things in just the reverse of everyone else. Most people start out rocky, but eventually things improve. We started out better than expected but now we're going downhill. I would really like to nip this in the bud before it gets worse. Oh, in case anyone is wondering, I do give her a treat following the injection, so she knows she has that to look forward to.

I have been injecting into the scruff of her neck because it seems that's where the most loose skin is on her. I had been instructed to inject anywhere from the scruff down to an area above the shoulder blades, sort of in a triangular area. But the lower I go, the less excess skin there is and it becomes harder to inject there.

I'm wondering if she's simply getting sore in the scruff area? I do move the site from left side, then middle, then right side. But every third injection I'm back at the same site again.

I've also read in this forum that the beveled edge of the needle should be down when the injection is given. Could this be the problem, that the needle isn't turned in the right direction? I really couldn't even tell which side was which until I got a magnifying glass out. Does anyone know whether the beveled edge is always on the same side of the syringe barrel or do you need to look at each one to see where it is?

As always, thank you to all who respond. I really appreciate your help.

Carolyn
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:42 AM
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Default Re: Trouble brewing at injection time

My own schnauzer, Wolfie, had an excess of fatty growth around his scruff so my vet advised us to inject insulin below the scruff. I tried to vary the injection point from both sides of his back and along both flanks to avoid overly sensitizing any one area of his body. I also kept a bag of his favorite treats in his vision to distract him while giving the shot. I think Natalie and most forum members will suggest that you vary the injection point. Somewhere on the forum there's an illustration that diagrams good injection points on a dog.
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:43 AM
catusgirl66 catusgirl66 is offline
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Default Re: Trouble brewing at injection time

Hi i'm new at this too lol. My dogs name is Boober we have been having a heck of a time with her... at least she is eating some now. I too have been having some problems with the shots, so you are not alone. But see I was told not to give in the neck area but to imagine a saddleback like whats on beagles and to do it only in that area and to switch sides each injections. Boober she is the same way, she yelps or jerks whats bad is one night she didn't even get all meds had to stick twice, because I put it in and she jerks on me urggggg. I hope like you this gets easier .

Kelly
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