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  #1  
Old 10-22-2019, 12:41 AM
Silver Silver is offline
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Default Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

Our Alaskan malamute was diagnosed about 5-6 weeks ago. We've tried to follow the vets instructions to a tee but have yet to basically see any movement in his sugars. Very frustrating.

We are on humulin n. Started at 24 units or something and now we are up to 32. Our vet has just kept upping his dose every week. Again, unfortunately no real movement.

Food wise we've tried a few different things over the weeks. Almost all his life he's been on orijen 6 fish. We were told to try a different food since the sugars weren't going down. Hill's diabetic food is what we were prescribed. He ate that for a few days and then wouldn't eat it anymore. We are now on acana senior. It's apparently good for blood sugar and stuff like that. Our boy is 7.

Anyway, long story long...any ideas of what we can change? I'm pretty confident we are doing everything right. Feed only twice a day, followed by the insulin. We administer it carefully, keep the insulin properly stored...

We have the alpha track 2 to monitor from home. He basically sits at like 29-33 sugars.

We did go to a holistic vet who suggested CBD oil. We've been adding that once a day for about a week now, with no improvement.

What can we do??? Different insulin maybe?

Any suggestions/help would be very much appreciated. Thank you!
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  #2  
Old 10-23-2019, 04:52 AM
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Susan M Susan M is offline
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Default Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

Hello,
Even though I have been managing my Max's diabetes for 18 month now I still consider myself a rookie compared to the senior members on this forum.
This forum has been my very best source of information/advice that I have found anywhere.
I didn't see anything stating your dogs weight so I don't have any thoughts as far as the dosage, but it sounds like there has been a substantial increase that hasn't helped....if it hasn't already come up you might want to inquire to your vet about "Insulin Resistance" The definition I found was "an excessively short duration of action due to rapid metabolism of insulin." I'm sure curve testing would have to be done to see if this is the problem.
Once your dog is regulated managing his diabetes will be a lot easier then you think. I was so overwhelmed at first. Hang in there, things will get better!
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Max is a 17lb terrier mix. Born 1/2014.
Diagnosed diabetic 3/2018.
6 units Novolin N twice a day.
Nature's Recipe Grain Free
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  #3  
Old 10-23-2019, 06:08 AM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

Take a deep breath. First thing to know is that this takes time, lots of time.
Changes in blood sugars will be slow and gradual, took me 2 years to reach regulation. Might take you 6 months, every dog is different.
And dogs can handle high sugars better than humans, so don't worry about getting sugars down right away.

And consistency is very important. Don't keep changing foods because every change means the body is getting different amounts of carbs, etc.

Stick with one dose of insulin for at least a week, do a full curve, and then adjust dose based on that. Little by little each week.

And as you progress you'll have setbacks and see things that don't make sense; it happens. Don't panic or try to always compensate. If you chase the numbers and always makes changes every time you see something you don't expect, there goes your consistency. Be methodical.

Increasing dose every week is not necessarily the thing to do. Your vet might be expecting dramatic changes in sugar way too quick. It doesn't work like that.

How much does your dog weigh? A normal starting dose is 0.5 units per kilogram (2.2 lbs).

Pick a food that is moderate fat and protein, with good carbs. Then stick with it.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.

Last edited by Raysaint; 10-23-2019 at 06:10 AM.
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  #4  
Old 10-23-2019, 05:24 PM
Silver Silver is offline
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Default Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raysaint View Post
Take a deep breath. First thing to know is that this takes time, lots of time.
Changes in blood sugars will be slow and gradual, took me 2 years to reach regulation. Might take you 6 months, every dog is different.
And dogs can handle high sugars better than humans, so don't worry about getting sugars down right away.

And consistency is very important. Don't keep changing foods because every change means the body is getting different amounts of carbs, etc.

Stick with one dose of insulin for at least a week, do a full curve, and then adjust dose based on that. Little by little each week.

And as you progress you'll have setbacks and see things that don't make sense; it happens. Don't panic or try to always compensate. If you chase the numbers and always makes changes every time you see something you don't expect, there goes your consistency. Be methodical.

Increasing dose every week is not necessarily the thing to do. Your vet might be expecting dramatic changes in sugar way too quick. It doesn't work like that.

How much does your dog weigh? A normal starting dose is 0.5 units per kilogram (2.2 lbs).

Pick a food that is moderate fat and protein, with good carbs. Then stick with it.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I did leave out some key details there.

He's about 105lbs (47kg). Humulin N. We started at about 23 units or so. Now up to 36 units (just a day into that).

We sort of had to try and change his food up because he wasn't eating the stuff that the vet prescribed. Plus, everyone else we spoke to (pet food stores and such) said that food was not very good for him. Currently have him on Acana Senior.

I just find it weird that we haven't seen his sugars move down at all. It's borderline getting worse.

There has been some talk about insulin resistance or even changing up his insulin, but the vet has ruled that out for now because he does have room for more units on the current insulin and again the option to try another insulin as well.

We did go see holistic vet (might as well!) and he did sell us some CBD oil (we are in Canada) to see if that may help. Obviously it seemingly has not.

As rookies, we just see his sugars so high and we get concerned that if we don't control them, he's going to start developing other issues (due to the diabetes).

We are definitely trying to view it as a marathon more than a sprint, but easier said than done! Especially when his sugars haven't budged.
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2019, 04:17 AM
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Daisydog10 Daisydog10 is offline
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Default Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

Where are you injecting him?

The scruff of the neck is where they have a tendency to least absorb the insulin, where the flank and an inch or so off the spine towards the chest has a better absorption.
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Daisy 11 y/o 20lb Mini Schnauzer - 115g chicken breast, 45g chana dal, 55g green beans all chopped in a food processor, 20g Hills Perfect Weight, 1 tbs pumpkin, 5.5 units Novolin N q12h.
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2019, 06:11 AM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

Like I said, it takes time. His sugars may not move hardly at all for weeks, especially if you are changing things.
Going from 23 to 36 units right away is a bit drastic. Looking for quick results is not the usual process and probably won't work. I'm surprised a vet would go that route.
Dogs don't get most of the complications like humans, they can withstand high sugars for long periods while you get them regulated. Just watch for ketoacidosis or pancreatitis. Any vomiting after eating can be a sign.

Once you get into a consistent routine, sugars will slowly start to come down. But remember every day can be different, don't panic if one day is not the same as the other day. What you're looking for is a range of sugar numbers, that is consistent over a week or two, then make your insulin adjustment, repeat. Steady as she goes, ride it out and know it will come.
There's a lot of things the body needs to adjust to and things will be erratic for a while.
Being diabetic myself, I was my dog's worst enemy, trying to always correct sugar numbers, tweaking things all the time. Then I learned to not manage his like my own. Patience, and no delusional expectations.

I'm in Canada also, GTA area. Humulin N insulin is only $30 a vial at Shoppers. Vets will want you to use their insulin and their food, but it's not mandatory.
__________________
Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2019, 07:10 AM
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jesse girl jesse girl is online now
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Default Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

do you have any recent curves you can post
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Jesse-26 lbs - 15 years old - 9.5 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 8 and 10 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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  #8  
Old 10-24-2019, 06:19 PM
Silver Silver is offline
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Default Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raysaint View Post
Like I said, it takes time. His sugars may not move hardly at all for weeks, especially if you are changing things.
Going from 23 to 36 units right away is a bit drastic. Looking for quick results is not the usual process and probably won't work. I'm surprised a vet would go that route.
Dogs don't get most of the complications like humans, they can withstand high sugars for long periods while you get them regulated. Just watch for ketoacidosis or pancreatitis. Any vomiting after eating can be a sign.

Once you get into a consistent routine, sugars will slowly start to come down. But remember every day can be different, don't panic if one day is not the same as the other day. What you're looking for is a range of sugar numbers, that is consistent over a week or two, then make your insulin adjustment, repeat. Steady as she goes, ride it out and know it will come.
There's a lot of things the body needs to adjust to and things will be erratic for a while.
Being diabetic myself, I was my dog's worst enemy, trying to always correct sugar numbers, tweaking things all the time. Then I learned to not manage his like my own. Patience, and no delusional expectations.

I'm in Canada also, GTA area. Humulin N insulin is only $30 a vial at Shoppers. Vets will want you to use their insulin and their food, but it's not mandatory.
No, we have been increasing the insulin a couple units at a time. After 6 weeks or so, we are now at 36 units with no movement.

Our plan is to try and keep it as consistent as possible with his food and stuff. But as mentioned, super frustrating that we've seen no decrease at all to this point.

Thanks for the information.
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2019, 06:21 PM
Silver Silver is offline
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Default Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisydog10 View Post
Where are you injecting him?

The scruff of the neck is where they have a tendency to least absorb the insulin, where the flank and an inch or so off the spine towards the chest has a better absorption.
Hmm. Interesting. We have been doing the neck scruff. Maybe we shall try the flank and see.

Thank you.
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2019, 06:34 PM
Silver Silver is offline
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Default Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse girl View Post
do you have any recent curves you can post
I'd say we haven't done an official curve but yesterday we did test his sugars 3-4 times.

Our AlphaTrack gives us mg/dl measurements for some reason. Two hours after his insulin yesterday he was at 660. Then 4 hours after he was at 745. Then about 7 hours 686.

We got the tester probably 3 weeks ago. Minus the vet visits, we've probably tested him 20 times. At different-ish intervals. We often did/do it at what we "hope" would be peak insulin working time. Our test at 4-7 hours after insulin usually reads between 525-700. We did have it fairly consistently at the 500-575 mark, but we recently switched his food because he wasn't eating the other stuff and its now gone higher.

We've also tested a handful of times before his second injection of the day (before he ate) and we'd get a similar reading of 500-575. Maybe a little on the lower end of that range.

The lowest we've ever seen it during this whole thing was like 460 or something. We had just taken him for a quick walk. But that was a one off it seems.
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