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  • Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

    Hello everyone. I am so relieved to have found this wonderful site. I know this will be long but anyone who would be willing to read my story and provide some insight, I would really appreciate it. I am the mother of a newly diagnosed, diabetic, 6 year old, neutered, male Maltese named Mister Pillow Puff-E-Lumps, but I just call him Lumpy, well most of the time....I also call him my Little Lamb, Bubbie Bear, Buttercup, and a host of other names, depending on the day and my mood. :-) I haven't ever been able to have any children, I have had 13 miscarriages, so he is like my son, for real. He was diagnosed 2 weeks ago on Friday, July 22, 2015 when we took him in due to vomiting and diarrhea, which we thought was the flu, but it turned out that he was in DKA and very sick with diabetes. We were in for a rude awakening and a HUGE $5k hospital bill to get his DKA under control. Here is the story:

    We took him in for an appointment thinking he had the flu. He had lost from 16 pounds down to 13.6 pounds since his last visit to the groomer 6 weeks prior so we knew something was really wrong. After blood work on Thursday at his vet appointment, we were called back in on Friday to go over the results. His blood glucose was 687 so they were confident he was diabetic, his electrolytes and other blood work was off and they were very worried about DKA due to the weight loss so they suggested a urine test to check for ketones and that is when everything changed. The test came back very positive with ketones showing moderate/large amount in his urine. The vet explained the seriousness of the situation and suggested we have him admitted for round-the-clock care and said if we took him home and tried to do it ourselves, we had a 50/50 chance of him making it. I was devastated and clueless about how to care for him so we took out the credit card and paid whatever the cost to have him cared for. He was admitted to the 24-hour hospital on Friday, July 23rd in the afternoon and they slowly brought his sugar down over a 48 hour period. I was devastated and did not sleep or eat the entire time he was in the hospital. All I kept hearing my vet say was 50/50 chance and I was just sick with worry. The hospital said he was doing very well, acting normal, and that was a great sign that he was going to pull through. When we brought him home on Sunday, he had just been started on 1.5 units of Novolin N every 12 hours and his ketones were still reading trace/small but they were much better than before.

    The first week home, we gave him 1.5 units every 12 hours with exactly 5 ounces of Hill's Prescription W/D food, mixed with 2 ounces of Cesar's Chicken and Cheddar Souffle (this is his normal food and he refuses to eat the W/D without some Cesar's mixed in so the vet said to mix some in so he would eat) He eats every 12 hours, 30 minutes before his insulin. At this point, he was still testing trace/small ketones every time I checked, which was several times a day because I am neurotic like that. I went through 40 ketone test strips the first week. I also bought the Bayer urine glucose test strips and his levels were 2000+, the highest brown level every time I checked, which was also several times a day.

    On day 7, we took him in for his first glucose curve and the results were not good. He was pretty much in the mid to low 400's all day long with not much of a curve at all and the lowest reading was 427. The Dr. told me to double his dose to 3 units every 12 hours with the same amount of food, every 12 hours. She said the small/trace ketones were to be expected and not to worry unless the stick turned darker than small or trace while were are working on getting his insulin dose regulated. So 6 days ago, on Monday, August 1st, we upped the dose for the first time on his evening dose to 3 units. That night, I check his BG at home with the Alpha Trak monitor I bought and the results were 468. I was discouraged because with double the insulin, I expected a lower number but our vet said it can take a week or so for his body to regulate to the new dose so I tried not to let it worry me too much. The next evening, I checked again and was surprised to see the reading was 102 at 4 hours after his insulin the second night. The next morning, right before insulin on the 3rd day after the increase, his BG was 501 and I started feeling defeated again. I tried not to check his BG at home too much because our vet said unless he is showing signs of low blood sugar, we should only test then, until we get his dose more regulated.

    To make a long story short, on the 5th day of the increase (Friday) I started getting negative ketone tests and the urine glucose test started to show a decrease from 2000+ (the darkest level) to the middle color, then on Saturday (today) for the first time, his ketones were negative all day long and his urine glucose strips have been showing in the middle, and the last 2 tests showed negative for urine glucose. I have not tested his blood glucose but I am confident that the negative ketones and lower urine glucose levels are a good sign that the increase is starting to work. Would any of you agree with that?

    I have another curve scheduled for Wed. the 10th of Aug. and I am hoping for a better result and that his sugar is starting to get under control. I love this dog more than I could ever explain. I am willing to do whatever it takes so he can live a long, healthy and happy life. For so long I thought I was showing him love by giving him lots of treats and whatever he wanted to eat, little did I know I was hurting him and for that, I will never forgive myself. It is hard to say no and see him want a treat so bad or food in the middle of the day, but I refuse to love him to death. I will be strong because his life depends on it.

    My questions are:

    If the ketones are now showing negative for the past 2 days and the past 24-36 hours his urine glucose is showing much lower levels, is that a good sign that the insulin increase is starting to work?

    Is it normal for it to take close to a week for his body to start to respond to the increase in insulin?

    In the beginning, is it normal for the ketone levels to be trace/small, until the dog's glucose levels are not in the 400's/high all the time? In other words, is it normal/typical that my dog still had trace ketones in his urine for almost 2 weeks after starting insulin and coming out of DKA? This worries me a lot because up until 2 days ago, he was still showing slight levels of ketones in the urine, although every day they stick was a lighter and lighter color and was typically only showing small readings first morning and then trace the rest of the day, until it was negative for the past 2 days.

    I am so worried about him but reading this site makes me feel empowered and I have a good feeling about it. I believe with the support of others, I will be able to help my Lumpy make it through this.

    Thank you all so much for reading and any insight would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by LumpysMom; 08-06-2016, 10:59 PM.
    Lumpy - 6 Yr. Old Maltese, 12.5 lbs. - DX Diabetic 7/22/2016 - Novolin-N 4 Units Q 12 hrs. - Hill's Prescription W/D mixed with 1 oz. Cesar's Pate to get him to eat it. Give 2 Mini Milkbones with each insluin dose. Working on getting his diabetes under control. He is the love of my life.

  • #2
    Re: Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

    Hi and welcome to the forum!

    It looks like you are making good progress and it is very normal for a change in insulin dose to take a week for the body to adjust to the new dose. It sometimes takes my Lily over a week to adjust.

    It's great that you are already home testing. This will be a big help as you learn how Lumpy reacts to changes in diet, exercise and other issues.

    Let us know how the curve goes on Wednesday

    Mike and Lily
    Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
    Diabetes: Aug 2013
    Went peacefully to heaven on 04-24-2021
    Video in Lily’s memory: https://www.facebook.com/10000201631...3260300417807/

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

      hi and welcome

      first off the diabetes is most likely nothing you have done . it just happens to even extremely healthy dogs just out of the blue

      just to give a perspective on regulation some dogs never attain good regulation and may have numbers from the 200s to 400s and live happy dog lives

      the trace ketones aren't anything to worry about and if water consumption and urination has come back to normal then testing so much for ketones is not really necessary but if you want you can once a day

      i prefer testing blood sugar over testing urine just gives so much more information . if you could test 3 times a day at fasting (before shot and meal ) maybe midday and next fasting that can give addition info to balance out the curves you do .

      you have to abandon the neurotic feeling and anxiety with seeing higher numbers cant do anything about it . its a process that takes time and most find a good place to get there pup and where they need to be

      my jesse was diagnosed at 5.5 she is almost 12 now we spent about $9000 but she had some addition challenges and wasn't initially diagnosed diabetic
      Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
      Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

        Hi I perfectly understand your state of mind. My Snoopy was diagnosed with diabetes on july 10 this year, its just been a month but it feels like years.
        After the initial earhquake of emotions, Vet visits (bills) and ignoarance about the illness, I promise you'll start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't know much about Ketones since thanks god Snoopy didnt have any. But I can def tell you about insulin units initial rollercoaster.
        for the first week Snoopy (20 lbs schnoodle) was on 4 units of NOvolin N every 12 hours, is BG was High (600).
        on 5 units for few more days and his BG was 400.
        With the vet we decided to go to 8 units few more days and his BG was in the 300 . (still high)
        9 units brought his BG down to 160, my short but intense experience tells me it takes time for the new units to take effect. and of course it depends on the dog.
        what I have learned so far is a very delicate balance between food, exercise and insulin.
        I travel for work and I left Snoopy for 2 days with a doggy care. I've been leaving him there for years and Gina ( The dog B&B owner )had a diabetic dog for 12 years. so I feel good when I leave him there, when I picked him up, while i was paying the bill we didn't realize the cat's food was out in a bowl and Snoopy had his face in it. Ugh!!! I checked his BG and it was High.... it has taken me 2 days to regulate him down again.....so my lesson here tells me to be very, very careful with the amount and calories with his food. Again, you will learn the balance, time helps.
        Good luck!!
        Igregorio
        Last edited by Snoopy; 08-07-2016, 07:08 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

          Originally posted by Snoopy View Post
          Hi I perfectly understand your state of mind. My Snoopy was diagnosed with diabetes on july 10 this year, its just been a month but it feels like years.
          After the initial earhquake of emotions, Vet visits (bills) and ignoarance about the illness, I promise you'll start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't know much about Ketones since thanks god Snoopy didnt have any. But I can def tell you about insulin units initial rollercoaster.
          for the first week Snoopy (20 lbs schnoodle) was on 4 units of NOvolin N every 12 hours, is BG was High (600).
          on 5 units for few more days and his BG was 400.
          With the vet we decided to go to 8 units few more days and his BG was in the 300 . (still high)
          9 units brought his BG down to 160, my short but intense experience tells me it takes time for the new units to take effect. and of course it depends on the dog.
          what I have learned so far is a very delicate balance between food, exercise and insulin.
          I travel for work and I left Snoopy for 2 days with a doggy care. I've been leaving him there for years and Gina ( The dog B&B owner )had a diabetic dog for 12 years. so I feel good when I leave him there, when I picked him up, while i was paying the bill we didn't realize the cat's food was out in a bowl and Snoopy had his face in it. Ugh!!! I checked his BG and it was High.... it has taken me 2 days to regulate him down again.....so my lesson here tells me to be very, very careful with the amount and calories with his food. Again, you will learn the balance, time helps.
          Good luck!!
          Igregorio
          Thank you for your reply. It sounds like you are finally on track with your baby. It is encouraging to know that your pup, which only weighs a few pounds more than mine, is on 9 units q12 because I was thinking that 3 units at a time was a lot because they started him off with only 1.5, so 3 seemed like a lot, but compared to 9, it is relatively small. I know it is not about the number but about the right amount for every dog is different. I just am worried about him getting too much and having a hypo event. I have Karo syrup just in case, I just hope I never have to use it.

          Originally posted by jesse girl View Post
          hi and welcome

          first off the diabetes is most likely nothing you have done . it just happens to even extremely healthy dogs just out of the blue

          just to give a perspective on regulation some dogs never attain good regulation and may have numbers from the 200s to 400s and live happy dog lives

          the trace ketones aren't anything to worry about and if water consumption and urination has come back to normal then testing so much for ketones is not really necessary but if you want you can once a day

          i prefer testing blood sugar over testing urine just gives so much more information . if you could test 3 times a day at fasting (before shot and meal ) maybe midday and next fasting that can give addition info to balance out the curves you do .

          you have to abandon the neurotic feeling and anxiety with seeing higher numbers cant do anything about it . its a process that takes time and most find a good place to get there pup and where they need to be

          my jesse was diagnosed at 5.5 she is almost 12 now we spent about $9000 but she had some addition challenges and wasn't initially diagnosed diabetic
          Thanks for your reply. I am so happy that your Jesse is doing well. It is so scary but knowledge is power and makes all the difference in the world, if you ask me. As far as testing his blood glucose, I do have the Alpha Trak and I can test him daily but I am concerned about hurting him to get the blood so I have only used the base of his tail to get blood and not sure how I would do it otherwise. I can't bring myself to prick his lip or ear, it would be too painful, and not sure how to do the pads of his feet, so the base of his tail seems the easiest and least painful. I know the urine testing is not very accurate but I am doing that as more of an overall look into how the insulin is working. Like this morning, it was back up to the highest level again, it seems to do that in the mornings. I tested his blood this morning at it was 437. I was really hoping to see a lower number but hopefully the next curve will give us a better idea of the right amount to give of insulin so he doesn't have such a high number just before his insulin dose.

          As far as the ketones, I am really relieved to see it at negative again this morning. This is the 3rd day now with negative testing and he has stopped the rampant drinking and peeing too, which is great.

          Thanks again for all the info and input.

          Originally posted by MikeMurphy View Post
          Hi and welcome to the forum!

          It looks like you are making good progress and it is very normal for a change in insulin dose to take a week for the body to adjust to the new dose. It sometimes takes my Lily over a week to adjust.

          It's great that you are already home testing. This will be a big help as you learn how Lumpy reacts to changes in diet, exercise and other issues.

          Let us know how the curve goes on Wednesday

          Mike and Lily
          Thanks for your reply. Now that you mentioned exercise, I did get the only decent reading of 102, right after he had played with his new toy for about 2-3 straight hours. He becomes obsessed when he gets s new toy and his life's mission becomes getting the squeaker out with his teeth, lol. He spends hours panting hard and tossing it around like a ragdoll, until he gets the squeaker out, then he is done with it and never plays with it again......starts begging for a new toy. I keep a supply of small, latex toys on hand that I get for about $1 each when I buy them in bulk of 100 at a time and he gets a new toy every single day, then I throw it away when he is done because he wants nothing to do with it once he has managed to get the squeaker out. Haha. He is soooo destructive! That is how I knew he was really sick, I gave him a new toy and he did not even want to play with it, the next day it was off to the vet and that is when we found out he had diabetes and was in DKA.
          Lumpy - 6 Yr. Old Maltese, 12.5 lbs. - DX Diabetic 7/22/2016 - Novolin-N 4 Units Q 12 hrs. - Hill's Prescription W/D mixed with 1 oz. Cesar's Pate to get him to eat it. Give 2 Mini Milkbones with each insluin dose. Working on getting his diabetes under control. He is the love of my life.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

            Hi and welcome ! First and foremost, this disease is not your fault so banish that thought right away. Canine diabetes is akin to Type 1 rather than type 2, and most likely was genetic, breed related (we seem to have a healthy number of Maltese dogs) or could have been the result of steroid use or some other event that damaged the pancreas. My Maggie was bitten by a copperhead at about a year or so, which gave her an almost fatal case of pancreatitis. It also effectively killed her immune system and she became allergic to everything in her environment(except one weed according to tests). At 7, her pancreas decided it was done and welcome to diabetes. She lived almost 9 years with diabetes and we eventually had to let her go due to dementia, arthritis and some cervical spine injuries. Her diabetes was in good control even on her last day. Guilt about anything is hard to reconcile - I blamed myself until I learned about the disease and actually it was her destiny.

            If your dog doesn't like the prescription food, I wouldn't try to dress it up. The last thing you need is meal time drama. Maggie flat out refused prescription food along with many premium foods as well. Eating is the number one priority and consistent meals - same time, same amount is very important. There are many diets that work for diabetes. Check the Caesar and make certain it doesn't have sugar - there are many stew like foods that do just fine. I have used Merrick, Nutrisca, and Weruva. You can mix the stews with kibble if desired but the main thing is feeding something they will eat while trying to control the fat.

            Finally, the testing at the base of the tail is perfect. There aren't many nerve endings in that area. It does help to shave a bit of hair and warm the area with a warm cloth or microwave a bag of rice to lie on it before. I couldn't do the lip or ear but Maggie never even was phased by the base of her tail. Also, any bumps or skin tags bleed well and have no nerve endings. Urine testing is not very accurate. Your morning test will be the highest because the urine has sat in the bladder all night and accumulated sugar. So, I wouldn't panic too much. Use that Alphatrack and eliminate the guessing. It really doesn't hurt them. Always reward with a piece of boiled chicken or green beans or something low fat. Before long, Lumpy will be following you around wanting you to test.

            Be careful with those squeaker toys - that could run him low quickly if you aren't paying attention. Maybe you could give it for shorter periods of time. Moderate exercise or excitement is best. You are doing great - just keep going down the track.
            Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

            Comment


            • #7
              Can dogs have ketones without being DKA?

              My dog was recently diagnosed with diabetes and at the time, he had a moderate amount of ketones in his urine and I was told he was in DKA, however, when we took him to be admitted to the 24-hour animal hospital for critical care, the doctor called us later that night and said although he is showing ketones in his urine, he did not appear to have acidosis? I am confused by this and could not understand what she was saying. He was not showing the typical signs of DKA besides weight loss and he had only had diarrhea for a day when we took him in to be tested and found out he was diabetic, otherwise he was in good spirits and playful for the most part so she said he did not appear like most dogs typically do when they are admitted in DKA.

              Is it possible for a dog to have ketones without being in full-blown DKA or is ketones in the urine automatically DKA? Sorry if I sound confused but I am.

              He is now finally testing negative but was testing trace for about 10 days before we finally started getting negative tests.

              I would appreciate any insight on this. I have researched online but could not find anything on it.

              Also..........I have 3 different brands of ketone test strips, 2 of them show negative as white and the Bayer brand shows negative as beige. I catch urine in a small sterile container and test all 3 strips (yes, I know it is a bit overboard) and the 2 tests that show negative as white are showing negative but the Bayer test strip is showing trace when his urine is dark yellow from overnight holding in his bladder. Is this normal to get a false trace positive on some test strips if the urine is highly pigmented?
              Last edited by LumpysMom; 08-08-2016, 02:32 PM.
              Lumpy - 6 Yr. Old Maltese, 12.5 lbs. - DX Diabetic 7/22/2016 - Novolin-N 4 Units Q 12 hrs. - Hill's Prescription W/D mixed with 1 oz. Cesar's Pate to get him to eat it. Give 2 Mini Milkbones with each insluin dose. Working on getting his diabetes under control. He is the love of my life.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Can dogs have ketones without being DKA?

                There are levels of ketones. At a higher level, the body starts to destroy itself(no pretty way to say it). Some dogs show ketones but have no symptoms but as the ketone levels get higher, the danger gets higher. In DKA, the body starts shutting down. Maggie was in DKA and she was barely responsive. She pulled out of it so catching it before they feel awful is helpful but most people have no idea it is happening until it affects the dog. But, any time a dog shows ketones, it is a dangerous sign that should be monitored.
                Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Can dogs have ketones without being DKA?

                  Don't have any good advice about this! Hope someone on the board can help you with your situation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Urgent Question about ketones

                    My dog is newly diabetic and was in slight DKA a few weeks ago but has been negative for over a week now. I actually test him for ketones several times a day. Tonight he urinated and I caught it in a little plastic cup, as usual, but this urine was super pigmented, almost looked like neon yellow it was so concentrated. Anyways, I dipped the ketone/glucose test strip in the urine and the glucose part turned immediately super dark and the ketone part turned a funny dark grayish/brown color, it was not any color on the color chart or even close to it. I tested him twice earlier in the day and he was negative for ketones, his first morning urine, and his afternoon urine and both were after several hours of not urinating and having ample time to accumulate ketones, if there were any, so for him to show a mid-range grayish purple would seem odd, at least in my opinion.

                    I have read that super pigmented urine can cause false positives, so just to see if it was the pigmentation of the urine, I added a couple drops of water to the urine in the cup until it was a normal yellow urine color and retested with a new strip and it was clearly negative. I am wondering if the dark urine could have caused a false negative since this color was nothing like the positive results I had in the past when he was in DKA. If there were ketones in the urine, adding a few drops of water would not cause a negative test, at least I would not think so.

                    Has anyone ever had something like this happen to them? I tested his blood glucose and it was 248.

                    Any insight? I don't want to ignore it if it is something that requires immediate attention but he just left the vet yesterday for his 2nd curve and as of this afternoon, he was testing 100% negative for ketones, like not even a trace.

                    Also, he is eating and drinking normal, no excessive thirst or urination and he is playing and acting completely normal.
                    Last edited by LumpysMom; 08-11-2016, 09:08 PM.
                    Lumpy - 6 Yr. Old Maltese, 12.5 lbs. - DX Diabetic 7/22/2016 - Novolin-N 4 Units Q 12 hrs. - Hill's Prescription W/D mixed with 1 oz. Cesar's Pate to get him to eat it. Give 2 Mini Milkbones with each insluin dose. Working on getting his diabetes under control. He is the love of my life.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

                      I combined your post into your thread for you.

                      Is the weather very hot where you are? Could he be dehydrated? I suppose that might cause the bright color? I've never used dip sticks, are there any warnings on the package about dehydration giving strange results?

                      Craig
                      Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9˝ years.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

                        I was hoping to post this as a separate post so people would see it and respond tonight. If it is combined in my intro thread, will people still see the title of "Urgent question about ketones" in the gallery? I was looking to get some quick response to know if I should take him to the emergency vet or not. I was told any time the ketones show above trace/small that it requires immediate medical attention............this color was off but was definitely darker than small so I am concerned that he might have went from zero ketones to a large amount in the past few hours.
                        Lumpy - 6 Yr. Old Maltese, 12.5 lbs. - DX Diabetic 7/22/2016 - Novolin-N 4 Units Q 12 hrs. - Hill's Prescription W/D mixed with 1 oz. Cesar's Pate to get him to eat it. Give 2 Mini Milkbones with each insluin dose. Working on getting his diabetes under control. He is the love of my life.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

                          Originally posted by LumpysMom View Post
                          I was hoping to post this as a separate post so people would see it and respond tonight. If it is combined in my intro thread, will people still see the title of "Urgent question about ketones" in the gallery? I was looking to get some quick response to know if I should take him to the emergency vet or not. I was told any time the ketones show above trace/small that it requires immediate medical attention............this color was off but was definitely darker than small so I am concerned that he might have went from zero ketones to a large amount in the past few hours.
                          Yes, people generally read ALL posts.

                          Can you have ketones while having good blood glucose readings?

                          Craig
                          Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9˝ years.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

                            I've been looking around the Internet. As you said, dehydration can produce false positive for ketones. Is this possible with your pup?

                            Don't know

                            Craig
                            Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9˝ years.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Newly Diagnosed Maltese Mom with Questions

                              I'm so sorry about what happen to your doggy, hopes other member can give you good advice about this.

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