Angel Wrigley January 10, 2014

[Wrigley]

Wrigley is our 8 Year old Yorkie. Its been 8 Days since we started vetsulin. His blood sugar has actually went up from 326 to 388 after a weeks worth of insulin???. The vet did not seem to worried, but my wife and I are freaking out. He appears to be getting worse? He had an appetite this morning, but now refuses everything. He throws up a few times a day. He has no energy, unless I squeak a Toy. He has accidents (Pees) in the house, and gets stressed because of it. We started out at 2 Units once a day. Today I was told to give him 4 Units. He seems to get worse in the evenings. So I am going to start injections twice a day. It really looks to us like he's dying, and we don't know what else to do. The Vet say's it will take a while, but I'm afraid he wont last that long. Someone please Help us! His excessive thirst is the same. When will he start showing any signs of improvement?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Help

I'm sorry Wrigley is feeling so crummy...

Did he have ketones when he was diagnosed with diabetes?

There's essentially no difference between 326 and 388 - blood sugar naturally varies that much hour to hour and day to day. And that's actually not bad for a newly diagnosed diabetic dog.

Glad you went to two injections a day.

But the fact that he's throwing up concerns me. Ketoacidosis and pancreatitis are a couple of possibilities. I think you should get him in to the vet ASAP because of that... or perhaps another vet who will take things more seriously if the current vet isn't worried about him vomitting.

Natalie

[Wrigley]

Re: Help

I'm sorry Wrigley is feeling so crummy...

Did he have ketones when he was diagnosed with diabetes?

There's essentially no difference between 326 and 388 - blood sugar naturally varies that much hour to hour and day to day. And that's actually not bad for a newly diagnosed diabetic dog.

Glad you went to two injections a day.

But the fact that he's throwing up concerns me. Ketoacidosis and pancreatitis are a couple of possibilities. I think you should get him in to the vet ASAP because of that... or perhaps another vet who will take things more seriously if the current vet isn't worried about him vomitting.

Natalie

Im bringing in urine test for Cushings in the morning. He is going to give something for his Nausea? He has had a full blood test, and he said everything looked fine other then the diabetes.

[momofdecker]

Re: Help

Welcome. Sorry to hear your pup is not feeling well. A standard blood test would not detect ketones nor would it detect pancreatitis. You can purchase urine strips at most local pharmacies and test your pup's urine for ketones. Just ask the pharmacist if you are not sure where to find them. Anything more than trace ketones should be considered an emergency situation.

An SPEC cPL blood draw is the only way to confirm pancreatits.

Will find links describing both and paste them in here.

http://k9diabetes.com/ketoacidosis.html

On pancreatitis:
http://www.idexx.com//view/xhtml/en_...jsf?SSOTOKEN=0

In terms of testing for cushings, it seems a bit premature for a newly diagnosed diabetic dog. Cushings in and of itself can be difficult to diagnose but when you add diabetes into the mix, it can be very misleading. Has your vet run any curves on your pup - checking his blood glucose (bg) before morning food/insulin and every two hours through evening food/insulin?

Holli

[amydunn19]

Re: Help

Hi and welcome to you and Wrigley! I think the numbers themselves are not of great concern. The vomiting is the main thing I would be concerned with - testing for cushings at this point would be unnecessary. I would worry about pancreatitis or whatever is causing the vomiting. That should be addressed immediately by your vet.

Also, please keep in mind that getting a dog regulated on a steady dose is a long process. I know that it is a scary and overwhelming thing but Wrigley can lead a full, relatively normal life. You can't rush it - every change in food or insulin will need time to settle(usually 5-7 days) and before making changes, there should be a 12 hour curve to determine how the dose is working for Wrigley. One blood sugar reading from a random time of the day doesn't tell you anything unless it is in the context of a curve. The curve will tell you when his lowest point is during the day - this is very important to know when making a dosage change.

Another bit of advice going forward, with a small dog, I would not increase over a half unit at a time. For my Maggie, a half unit is a pretty big difference.

If you really want to get a grip on this, I would recommend testing Wrigley's blood sugar at home. I use the One touch Ultra, a human meter that is probably the most accurate of the human ones or you can get an animal glucometer - the Alphatrack. Your vet probably has one of these. If you want to get more info about home-testing, just ask. I personally think testing my dog at home has added years to her life.

Of course, the biggest thing now is getting to the bottom of the vomiting.

[Monsters Momma]

Re: Help

Hi and Welcome!

You and Wrigley have found a great place for information and support.

Diabetes can be very scary in the beginning because you just don't feel you know enough to be a good advocate for pup. The people here will help and listen and help you to be that advocate.

I agree with the others...the throwing up would be my concern and what is causing it. Be very direct with your vet and make him/her take it as seriously as you do.

Good luck!

[Wrigley]

Re: Help

Hi and welcome to you and Wrigley! I think the numbers themselves are not of great concern. The vomiting is the main thing I would be concerned with - testing for cushings at this point would be unnecessary. I would worry about pancreatitis or whatever is causing the vomiting. That should be addressed immediately by your vet.

Also, please keep in mind that getting a dog regulated on a steady dose is a long process. I know that it is a scary and overwhelming thing but Wrigley can lead a full, relatively normal life. You can't rush it - every change in food or insulin will need time to settle(usually 5-7 days) and before making changes, there should be a 12 hour curve to determine how the dose is working for Wrigley. One blood sugar reading from a random time of the day doesn't tell you anything unless it is in the context of a curve. The curve will tell you when his lowest point is during the day - this is very important to know when making a dosage change.

Another bit of advice going forward, with a small dog, I would not increase over a half unit at a time. For my Maggie, a half unit is a pretty big difference.

If you really want to get a grip on this, I would recommend testing Wrigley's blood sugar at home. I use the One touch Ultra, a human meter that is probably the most accurate of the human ones or you can get an animal glucometer - the Alphatrack. Your vet probably has one of these. If you want to get more info about home-testing, just ask. I personally think testing my dog at home has added years to her life.

Of course, the biggest thing now is getting to the bottom of the vomiting.

Back from the vet this morning. Wrigley has Pancreatitus, as well as Diabetes. Vet put saline in his back, started Cerenia for the nausea.
What would make a Yorkie have Pancreatitus 3 times in his life?
Next up, an x-ray of some sort to rule out cancer. We have to bring him back to the Vet tomorrow, and re-check him.
As of today, we are up to around $1000. Another 4-5 Hundred tomorrow, and it looks like we're just getting started. They also wanted to put him in the hospital for 3 Days, but we just could not afford that as well.
The only thing worse then watching your Dog be so sick, is to not have the Money to heal him.
This is all so, so, stressfull!

Now were off to buy the new food, and home Glucose tester.

[momofdecker]

Re: Help

The only thing worse then watching your Dog be so sick, is to not have the Money to heal him. This is all so, so, stressfull!

Now were off to buy the new food, and home Glucose tester.

I hear you!!! We were on a tight budget when Decker was diagnosed. After paying nearly 90.00 for his first vial of insulin I started searching online for something less expensive. Found it for 55.00 and thought it was a steal. Then found out Wal-Mart sold it for 25.00 per vial. The Wal-Mart deal was for humulin n at the time but has since changed to novolin n. It truly is a learning process....

In terms of home testing... if you have family, friends, co-workers, etc.. that are pet friendly, it may be worth asking if any of them are pre-diabetic or diabetic themselves. I worked with two folks, who have since retired, who would bring in extra test strips for us to use. Decker's initial glucose meter and about six months worth of test strips were donated to us by friends of ours who work in the medical field.

After that we found it less expensive to buy the One Touch Ultra (now the OTU 2) and to use the test strips my co-workers and some other folks gave to us. Honestly, over a 14 month period there were only one or two times we had to purchase the test strips ourselves. That generosity from others made all the difference in the world for us.

There are other options for meters too - in which the test strips are quite inexpensive. Some find starting there works best as the cost is easier to manage as many find they go through several test strip errors when first learning how to home test. Let us know what questions you have - lots of great folks on here who can offer great tips!

[maladuca]

Oh I am so sorry about Wrigley's pancreatitis! I feel your pain about finances and the desire to help our pups! This disease of diabetes is so up and down I feel like I am walking on egg shells. Just when you think things are ok another shoe drops. When Teddy's glaucoma set in I knew I was in for a pricey future. We work it out and do what we have to do but I understand your nervousness. In the future I will definitely look into insurance for any more dogs that I may have.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Help

Back from the vet this morning. Wrigley has Pancreatitus, as well as Diabetes. Vet put saline in his back, started Cerenia for the nausea.
What would make a Yorkie have Pancreatitus 3 times in his life?
Next up, an x-ray of some sort to rule out cancer. We have to bring him back to the Vet tomorrow, and re-check him.
As of today, we are up to around $1000. Another 4-5 Hundred tomorrow, and it looks like we're just getting started. They also wanted to put him in the hospital for 3 Days, but we just could not afford that as well.
The only thing worse then watching your Dog be so sick, is to not have the Money to heal him.
This is all so, so, stressfull!

Now were off to buy the new food, and home Glucose tester.

I recently loss my Abby, and if you would like I have two meters on hand, and if you are interested in one, I can send to you.

1. OneTouch, which alot of folks use on this site. It is a human meter, and the strips can be bought on e-bay relatively cheaper than they can from the drugstore.

2. I also have an AlphaTrak2 meter, which is an animal meter. The strips are bit costly, but they do give a true reading. The strips can be purchased from ADW, and when waiting for their sales, you can get about 200 strips for $160.00. I know... OUCH!!

Craig, however, did some research and you may be able to use the FreeStyle Lite strips with the AlphaTrak to keep costs down.

You can private message me your address, if you are need of either of one of these meters. I would be happy to send.

PS: I offer this to anyone, who may be interested...

Barb

[Judi]

Re: Help

here is what I would ask before you let them do the cancer test; If Wrigley has cancer what would your options be? If they are all too hard on him or not affordable to you I would question why you need a cancer test done at this point.

That is just my opinion. keep us posted

[amydunn19]

Re: Help

My Maggie developed pancreatitis the first time when she was about a year old after she was bitten by a copperhead. Actually, the same snake bit her twice because she got angry and went after it again so it bit her on the other side of her face. She has developed it a couple of times since and it usually coincides with any kind of steroid shot or straight prednisone. She also got it from a dose of Rimadyl she was given after one of her injuries. She is a tad accident prone. Unfortunately, it is damage done to the pancreas so they tend to always be susceptible to it. Stress is even a factor. Bad news but at least you know now so you can work to avoid it.

But, pancreatitis is manageable and Wrigley can live a relatively normal life. Maggie flat out refused the prescription food. My vets told me she would die if she didn't eat it - that was about 6 years ago. I will say this - Life would have been much easier if she would have eaten the food because that would have been a no-brainer.

I always had good luck when she felt bad with homemade chicken broth and boiled chicken. It seems to be easy on the stomach. I found through much trial and error that food with potatoes upset her stomach greatly so I avoid any kibble with potatoes added. I don't know if all dogs with pancreatitis have the same issues with the same foods.

Some helpful meds I used were tramadol and cerenia. In fact, I use them if I think she has a flare-up coming on. If your vet is game, maybe they would give you some extra to keep on hand. Luckily, knock on wood, since Maggie's last bout a couple or three years ago, she hasn't had a flare up.

Maggie has had diabetes for six years - I never thought she would live through six months. I made many mistakes along the way and she survived all of them. Even though Wrigley is home, he is probably very sick. Watch for signs of dehydration, check his gums, and try to get him to eat some food but in very small amounts. Many times, all I could get Maggie to eat was boiled chicken and broth. If the vet will give you some tramadol, I found it helped Maggie a great deal.
Honestly, with all you are facing, the xray for cancer at this point is probably not going to change how you treat pancreatitis so I would probably hold off, too.

[Wrigley]

Re: Help

My Maggie developed pancreatitis the first time when she was about a year old after she was bitten by a copperhead. Actually, the same snake bit her twice because she got angry and went after it again so it bit her on the other side of her face. She has developed it a couple of times since and it usually coincides with any kind of steroid shot or straight prednisone. She also got it from a dose of Rimadyl she was given after one of her injuries. She is a tad accident prone. Unfortunately, it is damage done to the pancreas so they tend to always be susceptible to it. Stress is even a factor. Bad news but at least you know now so you can work to avoid it.

But, pancreatitis is manageable and Wrigley can live a relatively normal life. Maggie flat out refused the prescription food. My vets told me she would die if she didn't eat it - that was about 6 years ago. I will say this - Life would have been much easier if she would have eaten the food because that would have been a no-brainer.

I always had good luck when she felt bad with homemade chicken broth and boiled chicken. It seems to be easy on the stomach. I found through much trial and error that food with potatoes upset her stomach greatly so I avoid any kibble with potatoes added. I don't know if all dogs with pancreatitis have the same issues with the same foods.

Some helpful meds I used were tramadol and cerenia. In fact, I use them if I think she has a flare-up coming on. If your vet is game, maybe they would give you some extra to keep on hand. Luckily, knock on wood, since Maggie's last bout a couple or three years ago, she hasn't had a flare up.

Maggie has had diabetes for six years - I never thought she would live through six months. I made many mistakes along the way and she survived all of them. Even though Wrigley is home, he is probably very sick. Watch for signs of dehydration, check his gums, and try to get him to eat some food but in very small amounts. Many times, all I could get Maggie to eat was boiled chicken and broth. If the vet will give you some tramadol, I found it helped Maggie a great deal.
Honestly, with all you are facing, the xray for cancer at this point is probably not going to change how you treat pancreatitis so I would probably hold off, too.

This Website has been a God send. We have felt so helpless, and ignorant towards this disease. With your help, we are beginning to feel a little more in control of our emotions. Our Vet does not seem very impressed with my new found education, and tends to roll his Eyes at my comments, and questions. I can live with that. Wrigley however is VERY, VERY Sick. At this moment he can barely stand up, and we now have to feed him with a Syringe. We now know he has Pancreatitus, but the Dr. has really not done anything different. The only Medication is the Saline in his back. I just find it hard to believe there is not a medication of some sort for this. We are basically doing the same routine we started a Week ago, and now hes went down hill to this Stage. I'm trying to be patient, but very apprehensive. Thanks again for all your comments, and suggestions.

[Auddog]

Re: Help

Hi there,
Bazz and I wanted to give you a belated welcome to the forum. I'm so sorry to hear your Wrigley is battling pancreatitis. We've never had to go through it, but I wanted to offer you our support. Sounds like Amy had a good idea with asking your vet for the tramadol.
We'll keep you and Wrigley in our thoughts and prayers,
Audrey & Bazzle

[CarolW]

Re: Help (Wrigley)

Wishing you and Wrigley all the best. I'm only here from time to time, and am badly out of practice, as my Kumbi died about 3.5 years ago - of cancer, NOT diabetes.

You certainly found the place where you can get the best possible help. Whether your vet rolls his eyes or not!

I'll try to watch your thread, as I'm a terrier nut (even though my current dog is a Havanese).