Lacey crossed over Mar 30, 2018

[amydunn19]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

Three meals a day may be causing some problems for her higher numbers. Not everyone is doing just two meals a day but it has taken quite a bit of testing and research to determine what works the best for each dog. My dog has a history of pancreatitis so small more frequent meals/snacks works well plus with a low glycemic diet, I have to prop her up or she goes very low. Is there a reason you are doing three meals instead of two? Two meals, 12 hours a day, is the typical starting point because it works for most dogs.

The c/d is tricky too for diabetics - it seems the foods that are good for stones are harder to regulate because of the carb content. But, the stones are very important to avoid. So, if you can fine tune the diet and schedule, you might make some more headway. It is not all about calories, it is also about balancing food and insulin.

Did your vet ever do the 12 hour curve? Can you post it?

Stress and anxiety can play a huge part in numbers. Some dogs go much higher at the vet while others go lower than normal. They respond very individually to certain factors. I have to test at home because Maggie would never tolerate the vet for 12 hours for routine testing. She has a chronic fear of kennels and if they leave her out of the kennel in the back, she is into everything and chasing any cats or birds around. So, the results would never be accurate for her.

Have they tested triglycerides ? High tryglycerides is also a common problem for schnauzers and regulation.

[Lucky Lacey]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

I have the meals in the morning and night so that I can give her the insulin and then I give her something when we are having our dinner. Her daily allotment is 1 1/4 cup of her dry kibble (Hills C/D - for stones) or 1/2 can wet C/D and 1/3 cup kibble. That is what the original vet recommended for her weight loss and diabetes since she is allergic to the Hills Diet Diabetic food. Then I wondered - should I be breaking it down into 6 small meals/snacks to keep her sugar stable? Is Jesse better now with her digestive issues?

[jesse girl]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

yes she is has the best poohs. she like amys maggie both have had pancreatits and it can be chronic and life threatening . more of an immediate danger than diabetes

we both have taken complete opposite approaches but jesse diet is a fairly low glycemic also except for her milk bone for a snack

you will probably never get anyone to recommend this approach but i looked at it a bit different than the professionals. i figured one meal even though larger gave jesse a break from digestion where many meals may not

it worked and was a process getting there . testing blood sugar was key no way we could have done this without it

[Lucky Lacey]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

Curves - her first was on Mar 6

9:40 470
11:40 409
1:40 522
3:40 454
5:40 391

April 7

9:30 411
12:00 392
2:00 478
4:00 425

I don't know why it was so high (500)when I took her in for her foot - maybe the pain and inflammation. I'm taking her back for another curve on Monday. Maybe it's time for me to bite the bullet and start doing the testing here at home. It would be immediate and with no outside influences. What do you all think?

[Lucky Lacey]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

Jesse's tummy - Yes, I can really see the logic in your approach to just one meal per day....

[Cara Sandler]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

I highly encourage doing your own curves. You really do get much more accurate information that way, plus it saves a ton of money!

[amydunn19]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

Pain was probably a factor. Virtually everything affects blood sugar in some way. It is about learning how and to what extent it affects your dog.

Testing at home does open up your options. There may be several possibilities to get to the goal of relatively stable blood sugar or you may only have one path that works when nothing else does. You might try Jesse or Maggie's way and not get even close to the same result. Every dog is individual and will react in their way. Just like people - I found I can't eat three meals a day myself - I eat one larger meal and two or three smaller snacks. It works for me - it is where I feel the best and think the best. Other people need more at different times. With dogs, when you start factoring in their other conditions, you learn what works.

You also need some luck too. Many people have worked really hard and have done everything right for their pup and lost them too soon. The more involved you can become earlier in the process at least gives you a good chance. Many diabetic dogs actually die from other conditions and many have lived long lives without perfect blood sugar - some with much higher numbers than you would think of as acceptable. I think Maggie lives a pretty good life - she seems happy even now when she is having some struggles. I think home testing has added years to her life and she really doesn't mind it. She actually does her happy dance when I get her meter out.

[Ann Renee L.]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

Insulin works with food. A curve will show if food and insulin are working together.
Sometimes insulin is ahead of food or food is ahead of insulin and numbers will be off target.
Curve can show how long insulin is lasting too. Also,curve gives you information if
you are at the correct amount.
If you feel comfortable doing blood glucose curves at home great but if not
some people do monitoring with urine glucose and do Fructosamine tests at vet.
There are many ways to do things.
It is important to not feel too overwhelmed and find what works for
you and your pet.
I have been to numerous vets and have learned do what works for you.
I am at CSU at this time and they promote low stress for humans and pets too.
If blood testing is great for you and pet do that if not do urine glucose,ketones and Fructosamine. Blood curves only when changing dose or at start.
In regards to food it needs to fit your dogs needs and insulin.
Finding the right diet and amount is a key component for sure.
My dog gets insulin first to kick start insulin.I am at home and can monitor or vet
would not do this method.
Most dogs food first then insulin.
The amount of food depends on dog's needs.
Remember insulin and food must be working together in order for numbers to meet target.
It is extremely common for diabetes to cause silent uti so remember to check for uti if numbers are high and no other reason.

[Lucky Lacey]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

Wow - overwhelming....

The vet does check her for UTI regularly (which she did have and now is cleared). The antibiotics for her inflamed paw are making her stomach upset. She doesn't' want to eat much - I'm giving her chicken bites which I have frozen from a leftover roast. But she also needs other nutrients, yes? She did eat better this morning - most of her C/D kibble and chicken bites. She also ate a frozen teaspoon of pumpkin.
She has a curve tomorrow (she's up to 15 insulin, which I think is too much but it's early days yet). I will talk to the vet about doing home monitoring. I can do this! I'll let you all know what tomorrow brings.

[jesse girl]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

i think it will be difficult to draw any conclusions on a curve at this point on dose adjustments due to the medical issues medication and eating consistency problems possibly due to medication

you seem to be already concerned at the amount of insulin your pup is on . the the problem many dogs have a bit of resistance to insulin at the beginning as it tries to get use to the new reality of injected insulin or a medical issue causing the resistance . if moving to aggressively on raising the dose and amount once that resistance is broken and not testing at home to catch it that can turn into a crisis situation very quickly

[amydunn19]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

Being a schnauzer, they can need more insulin than most especially at first. They are tricky at times - we have had schnauzers on the forum who were difficult to get stable. Add in the c/d food which is pretty high on carbs and fat and she may just need more insulin.

Have you ever asked about potassium citrate to give so you could look at another more diabetic friendly food? My male JRT had issues with stones and he wouldn't eat c/d at all so the vet gave me a prescription for potassium citrate. The pills worked for him as he didn't develop any more stones.

[Judi]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

If she's 30 pounds and a schnauzer 17 units isn't too much yet. they aren't considered difficult to regulate till they are getting as many units as they weigh. And as Amy says, we've seen lots of schnauzers who just need more insulin than other dog breeds.

Natalie had to remind me once that we don't get a prize for who uses the least insulin! lol Their bodies need what they need. And as you are finding out it can be a moving target when other things are going on.

hang in there! Judi

[Lucky Lacey]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

Amazing insights - I loved the one about getting a prize for using the least insulin. That's where I was heading....

The info about the schnauzers was very helpful, too. Interestingly, I was looking on the internet this weekend for a diabetic/struvite friendly dog food. No luck so far, but I certainly will ask the vet about the potassium citrate. That would solve a lot of problems. (I also ordered some lamb lung treats - eewww) and I will let you know how she likes them. I have noticed that she is eating less of her C/D than before. She is leaving a small amount of kibble in her bowl. Maybe I'm giving her too much, or she likes the chicken cubes best and fills up on them first. Maybe she knows the C/D is not good for her. Who knows? I want her to get proper nutrition but not at the expense of her diabetes.

Saving the best for last -
8:25 481
10:00 injection 16 Units
11:00 585
2:00 276
5:00 257

She goes for a fructosamine blood test in 2 weeks. What does that show?

This is the first time her sugar has been below 300. This is encouraging, yes?

Looking forward to hearing from you all.

Carol

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

yes yes very nice

when did she eat 8am or 10am?

you rock Lacy

[Lucky Lacey]

Re: Lucky Lacey Mini Schnauzer new diagnosis

She had half her breakfast before I took her to the vet (about 8:00 and some of the other half at 10:00. The tech said she didn't want to eat much at 10:00 before her injection.

Just got the lamb lung - not only is it disgusting to look at, but it really really smells. Not to mention the poor little lambs....

BUT, she ate a piece and didn't seem to mind. We'll see how it goes.

What we do for them!