Angel Chessie...

[CrazyCor]

Chessie, an 85 pound Treeing Walker Coonhound, 8 1/2 years old, diabetic since last December.

She eats 1 1/2 cups of California Naturals grain-free Kangaroo and red lentil mixed with 1 cup of lean meat and veggies 2x per day

She takes 36 units of Novolin N insulin (her curves actually improved after the switch from humulin N) 2x per day after eating.

We use the alpha track meter, though she still spikes a little higher than I prefer about 4 hours into the curve. She starts around 85, will go up to about 285, then returns to 85.

[CrazyCor]

Re: CrazyCor

Just to give a little more information about Chessie and her diabetes.

Chessie has always had seasonal allergies. In the spring and fall, her skin breaks out into terrible rashes. Benadryl helps a little, malaseb shampoo helps a lot (though an 85 pound dog who is petrified of water is not an easy thing to bathe!), but nothing we've tried has ever completely cleared her skin during allergy season.

Last fall, a new vet at our practice decided to try her on Prednisone to clear her allergies. I was really hesitant to use a steroid, but the vet convinced me I would be cruel not to try at least a very short dose of it. After two days on the prednisone, Chessie began drinking tons of water and having accidents all over the house. The vet said this was a normal reaction to the steroid, and would stop after she finished with the steroids. A week after coming off of the prednisone, Chessie was still having accidents, so I demanded that the vet test her urine for glucose. Although the vet said I was crazy to suspect diabetes, she did the test, and sure enough, Chessie had glucose in her urine.

I starting insisting on seeing only the head vet at the practice and we have been working to get Chessie's sugars under control. She takes a ton of insulin, but the vet says that is not uncommon for a dog of her weight and muscle mass.

Our latest challenge is dealing with the blindness/cataracts. I give Chessie prescription eye drops twice a day to reduce inflammation, but she has very little vision left. She can tell the difference between light and dark and I think she may have some peripheral vision. I'm not sure whether cataract surgery is the right choice for Chessie, but it is something I'll look into.

Chessie does periodically have a UTI, but they usually clear quickly with antibiotics.

After a year, I'm still trying to get a handle on having a dog with diabetes.

[CraigM]

Re: CrazyCor

Welcome to the forum.
Sorry to hear about the prednisone, I think I've heard others developing diabetes after its use. At least you knew to have her urine tested. I wasn't that knowledgable and thought our Annie was just being hard headed with several weeks of accidents.

Annie had cataract surgery, it was successful on one eye. Then about three years later she developed glaucoma overnight (seemed that way, anyway), had surgery, but still lost the rest of her vision. Actually, blindness hasn't affected her that much! She still likes walks and playing ball. It just takes her a while to sometimes locate the ball (ball playing down the hallway, so she has a chance!).

[CraigM]

Re: Your dog's diet, insulin, and meter used

She takes 36 units of Novolin N insulin (her curves actually improved after the switch from humulin N) 2x per day after eating.

Just making sure. You are getting the Novolin-N from Walmart for $25? 36 units would cost big $$$ if buying elsewhere.

[CrazyCor]

Re: Your dog's diet, insulin, and meter used

Just making sure. You are getting the Novolin-N from Walmart for $25? 36 units would cost big $$$ if buying elsewhere.

It is definitely coming from Walmart! My husband and I joke we could have a condo in the Caribbean with all the money we spend on the dog. But she's worth it

[jesse girl]

Re: CrazyCor

hi and welcome to both of you

quite an adventure yes the steroids can be a curse and a gift but no reason to look back

sounds like things have settled down its not unusual for a fasting number ( a test before food and insulin ) at a lower number to spike up my theory its just already to low for the body to be comfortable with and will bounce up because there is no room to go lower

its seems to be predictable but i am sure you did get a bit nervous giving 36 units at a number of 85

it is possible the dose is over the maintenance dose and the body is able to compensate for the extra insulin for which you see the spike

my jesse will usually go up at a lower fasting but on rare occasions she did not and stayed steady through that early time when she would rise

so if your pup has no symptoms and feels good after insulin not lethargic or it just seems like insulin is not hard on her which could be a clue to possible to much insulin he should be good

what was the history of getting to this dose and what type of blood sugar did you see when raising the dose just higher numbers or big swings in blood sugar some dogs do acquire more insulin than others it does seem to be more on the rare side

[CrazyCor]

Re: CrazyCor

She started on 9 units of insulin 2x per day last December. That original dosage had little effect and her numbers were consistently above 400. The vet jumped her to 20 units in January. We did a glucose curve about once a month, and increased the insulin by two or four units until she was mostly under 200.

The vet has been very happy with her numbers as they are now, but I am very careful to make sure she is fed on time every day. She has had fewer UTIs for the last couple of months since taking 36 units. I wish there was a way to decrease the amount of insulin. I've been trying to exercise her more, but she doesn't like to go too far now that she can't see.

[jesse girl]

Re: CrazyCor

you could slowly back down the dose maybe a half unit at a time maybe take a week and see how the dose settles if you see things hold steady you can reduce further but i would go slow taking that 5 to 7 days to let things settle

just a thought

[CraigM]

Re: CrazyCor

I wish there was a way to decrease the amount of insulin.

Why? Because she is using 36 units? The way I look at it is they need what they need. If its because you don't like injecting that much liquid, there is Levemir which is said to be four times stronger than "N".

[CrazyCor]

Re: CrazyCor

You are right - they need what they need - but I feel like i fly through the bottles! I've started buying two bottles at a time because I felt like I was always at the pharmacy getting more. I'll have to ask my vet about levemir. Chessie does not like getting insulin injections, so it may be beneficial for her to receive a smaller volume. She will try to run away as I have the needle in her, which makes things challenging to say the least. Though she doesn't mind me taking blood to measure blood sugar. Go figure!

[CraigM]

Re: CrazyCor

You are right - they need what they need - but I feel like i fly through the bottles! I've started buying two bottles at a time because I felt like I was always at the pharmacy getting more.

You would have loved Vetsulin, the insulin most in the States was using four years ago!. Vetsulin was 2.5 times "weaker" than NPH, only 400 units per vial and we were paying $60 - $75 per vial. Yikes, if you needed 36 units with that

[CrazyCor]

Re: CrazyCor

You would have loved Vetsulin, the insulin most in the States was using four years ago!. Vetsulin was 2.5 times "weaker" than NPH, only 400 units per vial and we were paying $60 - $75 per vial. Yikes, if you needed 36 units with that

Thank you for the perspective! If she had needed the Vetsulin, I think she would have needed to look for a job!

[Franklin'sMum]

Re: CrazyCor

Hi and welcome to you and Chessie,

I'm new at this, and my guy doesn't use human insulin as yet, so I have no knowledge or experience to add. Just wanted to welcome you to an amazing forum with wonderful folks

[Rubytuesday]

Re: CrazyCor

She started on 9 units of insulin 2x per day last December. That original dosage had little effect and her numbers were consistently above 400. The vet jumped her to 20 units in January. We did a glucose curve about once a month, and increased the insulin by two or four units until she was mostly under 200.

The vet has been very happy with her numbers as they are now, but I am very careful to make sure she is fed on time every day. She has had fewer UTIs for the last couple of months since taking 36 units. I wish there was a way to decrease the amount of insulin. I've been trying to exercise her more, but she doesn't like to go too far now that she can't see.

Welcome, It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things, I just wanted to give you some food for thought.

As you are using the AT meter that 85 doesn't leave you much of a cushion if for some reason the food isn't digested as well one day, or for any other reason that might cause her numbers to be lower. If you are trying to use exercise to affect the numbers I would want her to be a little higher.

When does her nadir and happen and do you know what that number is? Could it be lower then 85 or is her nadir at fasting?

I wonder if as Jesse Girl says, part of the jump mid cycle is her body not liking the lower number and releasing stored glucose. It can be easy to pass the correct dose. Usually it is best to increase by 1/2 to 1 unit at a time. You may find if you back off a little on the dose she may flatten out a bit.

Tara

[Patty]

Re: CrazyCor

Sounds like you've gotten some great advice so far. Just wanted to welcome you and Chessie to the forum. My girl was diagnosed after a course of pred for allergies as well. So glad you pushed for a glucose test.

Again, welcome to you!
Patty