A Plea for Guidance!

[k9diabetes]

Re: A Plea for Guidance!

Before changing anything, let's talk about how the food change was made. If you are now feeding significantly more calories, that seems like a logical cause for the high blood sugar now.

Natalie

[jim maceri]

Re: A Plea for Guidance!

Jim - Thank you for your input. Sam has had a few UTIs since our initial diagnosis. Our vet immediately looks for an infection when the numbers are consistently elevated (more than usual). He has been on a few rounds of Clavomax (spelling?) over the past 2 months.
I know your advice to wait 3-5 days before making a change is so sound. I wish I could get past the panic of the 6-700s.
I have not considered asking for a workup every 4 months. I will request that on Tuesday. (When Sam was a puppy my husband and I purchased VPI insurance for him. We had initially done so, per chance he ate a stuffed toy or broke a bone. That insurance has been a godsend over these past months. )
A question....how did you, and others, arrive at the amount of food to feed your lovies? Was it hit or miss or a very calculated move?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. Sam and I are grateful for your taking the time!

Sam and Mary-Anne

I started by using the guidelines on the WD kibble bag as a starting point. Early on in Spirit's diagnosis someone (can't remember who) told me about boiled chicken and I created the "gravy" from WD cans myself.

Interesting thing……Spirit was 130lb's prior to his diagnosis. He dropped to 115 during the first month or so and every time I take him to the vet he is of course weighed. He has been between 114-116 for almost 3 years now and the vet said that weight is good for him. We can easily feel his ribs and the lower weight is good for his joints.

I use a digital scale to measure each meal. For him his meals are.

7 oz of WD kibble
5.5 oz. of boiled chicken
4 oz of "gravy" (one can of WD / add 1-1/2 cups of water and blend to a gravy)

After dinner he gets 2 WD biscuits (one before shot and one after shot)
He also gets a biscuit (broke in half) at each test….3-4 times per day as they seem to not affect his BG at all.

At his evening meal I puncture 2 capsules of "omega via" fish oil supplement and put it over the kibble. (thanks Craig) He DEVOURS his meal and loves it so no problem with not eating. I did increase the boiled chicken from 4 oz. to 5.5 oz in the beginning as I was tweaking the food to match the insulin.

[Samwise]

Re: A Plea for Guidance!

Thank you for your replies! Sam was eating 1/2 c wet D/D, 1/2 c. dry D/D, and 1/2 cup boiled chicken at each meal (12 hours apart). He now eats the same amounts but with the D/D replaced by the Nutrisca. He weighed 24 pounds when he was first diagnosed and he now weighs 20.5, having lost 2 pounds in one month before our food change in mid July. (Jim...I can feel Sam's ribs now also. That frightened me.) The calories in both foods are as follows:
dry D/D = 371 per 1 cup
wet D/D = 404 per 1 cup

Nutrisca dry = 370 per 1 cup
Nutrisca wet = 343 per 1 cup

Natalie - The calories were very close (actually decreased) and I transitioned the food slowly. The only treat he gets is small pieces of boiled chicken because I am afraid anything else will raise the numbers.

You are right Natalie...Sam's spikes are huge. We have been seeing them consistently for many many weeks. I fear one day we will wake up and his sight will be gone.

All else has remained the same. I discard insulin after 30 days, use 29 gauge needles, and am OCD about his schedule. I even have my husband counting the seconds of pee time ( we joke about how our dinner conversations have changed!)

Your replies have me leaning toward the dropping to 5 units for 5 days plan of action. I am not sure the not testing would make me worry more or less about the numbers.
Question - After the 5 days of being at 5 units what am I looking for? If numbers stay high do I increase to 6 and then 7 etc until he has fairly good numbers?

As always, I thank you, one and all, for your taking the time to reply. Your help is so greatly appreciated!

Sam and Mary-Anne

[amydunn19]

Re: A Plea for Guidance!

Have the spikes occurred just after the food change or did they occur only after the food change?

If you drop the insulin dosage to 5 units, then I would just wait and see. I think you have to see the 5 unit dosage through for a few harrowing days to see where you are with numbers. I would check for ketones if he gets really high.

I didn't really see rebound in the numbers but the food is a pretty drastic change from what he was eating. I know when I changed Maggie to Nutrisca, it caused a big drop in her numbers - I can't remember if it was subtle or sudden but it was a significant drop. It may not affect your pup in the same way - it could be the opposite.

[Samwise]

Re: A Plea for Guidance!

Amy - Sam's sample numbers before the food change (with dose being 7.5 - 8.5):

6/14- 233, 441, 152, 104
6/19- 369, 270, 89, 431
6/25-150, 610, 304. 109
6/29-233, 707, 155, 153
7/1- 746, 396, 239, 165, 485
7/7-168, 611, 270, 105, 191

He has never been regulated or consistent.

Some days his fasting numbers are much higher than numbers for the rest of the day. It appeared that the spike came after eating, which caused me to look at the potatoes in his previous food as a possible culprit.

We are dropping to 5 units in the morning. I will watch closely for the next 5 days. I am sure I will be posting panic entries as the week progresses!

Thank you so much for your advice!
Sam and Mary-Anne

[amydunn19]

Re: A Plea for Guidance!

I don't know - most of those numbers are in good range except for one really high number each day and they are just so up and down. That is perplexing. On those days, what are the times(approximate) of those readings and what were his food/insulin times? Do you inject immediately after his meal?

The antibiotics will cause some crazy numbers, as does infection. Just another element to keep you running in circles. How many days out of the last two months would you say he was on clavamox?

Schnauzers have had challenges with regulation but usually with resistance type problems. Since he is a schnoodle, I wonder if he could have some schnauzer traits. I wonder if his lipids or triglycerides are high - those are typical schnauzer problems.

I just don't see rebound but his numbers are very erratic. This is a mystery, for certain so you will have to become a detective to figure him out. I would try the 5 units because with a food change, starting over might be best to make certain the dose is not too high.

[Samwise]

Re: A Plea for Guidance!

Amy - Sam's feeding time is 6:30 (A and P). I dose him as soon as he eats. The times of the numbers I have posted are: 6:30 AM, 10 AM, 4 PM and 6:30 PM. Some days the 2nd and 3rd readings are at 12 and 2... All depends on when I get home.

Over the past 2 months Sam has been on Clavomax for 1 cycle starting July 2nd. His lipids and triglycerides were within normal ranges when he had a full blood panel in May.

I am headed to the Web to research the Schnauzer issues! Thank you for reminding me of that!

Thank you again!

[jesse girl]

Re: A Plea for Guidance!

some of those numbers look out of place especially the very high ones .

i am not sure what meter your using but you may want to get another meter and compare especially the higher levels .

you can also do a curve at the vet and compare there. i would prefer a lab analyzer then to another handheld ( you want good information )

these devices are not perfect and can like any electronic device may not be working properly . its something you want to know for sure before trying something else

[Samwise]

Re: A Plea for Guidance!

Good Morning Jesse Girl - Sam is tested with an AlphaTrak 2 with the AT strips. I have had it since November. I will change the batteries and ask for a lab analyzer (unsure as to what that is) curve to be done this week. Thank you for your input. With each reply I learn more and more!
A beautiful day to you!
Sam and Mary-ANne