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  #11  
Old 09-06-2018, 11:10 AM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

gudgirl, I live in the Toronto area, and I buy Humulin N insulin for $30 a vial at Shoppers. It's an NPH insulin.

My dog has been diabetic since Feb. 2017. I researched dog food to death, and I found many raw diets to be too high in fat. Fat is risky for diabetics, can cause pancreatitis, which you don't want. Dog needs to be hospitalized usually, at about $1200 a day at a good hospital.

Food needs to be somewhat low fat, but needs good carbs to balance the insulin and give him fibre. Fibre is important for a bunch of reasons. And you can add things to his food. I feed my dog can food and I add a bit of pinto bean/oatmeal puree, pure cooked pumpkin, sweet potato puree, green beans/spinach puree. Not all of those every meal, but usually 2 choices per meal. Oh, and wild blueberries.

Just stay methodical with meals and insulin and curves. Little by little, it takes time. Patience is the biggest thing you can have.
And as others have said, many vets are not experienced, so question anything you want. For a vet to recommend Lantus right out of the gate, not a good sign.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

This is totally overwhelming.
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Levi is a 71 lb Smooth Coat Border Collie X, born Apr 26, 2006. Retired Service Dog. Diabetes: Feb 2018
Insulin: Lantus - Meter: Bayer Contour uSB
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  #13  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

Canned food has more carbs than kibble usually. I have no idea what to do next and we arent getting anywhere
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Levi is a 71 lb Smooth Coat Border Collie X, born Apr 26, 2006. Retired Service Dog. Diabetes: Feb 2018
Insulin: Lantus - Meter: Bayer Contour uSB
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  #14  
Old 09-15-2018, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

It can be overwhelming, especially early on.

Maybe itís time to do a reset and learn the basics on managing Leviís diabetes.

A good place to start is to read this article on the main k9diabetes web site...
http://www.k9diabetes.com/

Like the article says...
Quote:
Take a deep breath. Diabetes in dogs is almost always manageable and, with good care and monitoring, your diabetic dog can live a normal, healthy lifespan.
If you have any questions, just ask. We are here to help.
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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine

Last edited by MikeMurphy; 09-15-2018 at 09:29 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-15-2018, 10:17 AM
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

I know it is hard in the beginning but you really can get this figured out.

First, are you still using lantus? How much and how often? Have you checked on the prospect of finding some lower cost NPH? It really should be the first choice. Lantus is just not that effective because of the way dogs use insulin.

Have you been able to blood test? Does Levi have any bumps or warty like skin tags? Those generally give good blood and have no nerve endings. Also, consider using a bigger thicker lancet. You can test at the base of the tail, the elbow callous, anywhere you can get some blood.

What are you feeding again? Is there a carb component? Diabetic dogs need a carb component to help even out the action of insulin.

We can help. Just let us know what you are struggling with.
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2018, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

You might want to double check the carb percentages of some kibble vs canned. And remember, carbs are needed, and carbs are good. So don't choose the food based on the lowest carbs. Look for good carbs in a food, with moderate protein and fiber content, and lower fat.

While it seems overwhelming, it really comes down to consistent feeding schedule, a dose of insulin, tweaking the insulin dose as needed each week, and eventually you find the right combo and it becomes routine.
And as long as you can check blood sugar, that guides you on what's going on.
Go buy some Humulin N at Shoppers. $30 a vial.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #17  
Old 10-09-2018, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

He is still on Lantus. I switched him to a senior kibble to try to get some weight off. Hes on 14u twice a day, every 12 hours, He doesnt go for walks that much anymore as its hard on him but when he asks we go for 10 mins. i read humulin N isnt that great either. what is nph? i test in his mouth under the lip. its the only spot he allows and i have to treat after or i wont get it next time. The bet recommended the vet brand of insulin to which i sed no because i cant afford it and was not going to put him down. Lantus was the next choice. they wanted him on 7u. it did not work. He continuously peed in the house every hour. i got nothing from them, no advice no nothing so i stepped up by myself also being diabetic. i dont know what Somogyi Rebound is.

dj
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Levi is a 71 lb Smooth Coat Border Collie X, born Apr 26, 2006. Retired Service Dog. Diabetes: Feb 2018
Insulin: Lantus - Meter: Bayer Contour uSB
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  #18  
Old 10-10-2018, 04:37 AM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

Hi again.

Glad you are now able to test. Have you been able to do a 12 hour curve or do you have some test BG readings that you can share?

NPH is an intermediate duration type of human insulin. Humulin N is an NPH insulin.

Rebound is the body’s natural response to blood glucose going too low, too fast. It is caused by a dog's insulin dose being too high. You can read about it here...

http://www.caninediabetes.org/pdorg/somogyi.htm
__________________
Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine

Last edited by MikeMurphy; 10-10-2018 at 05:19 AM.
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  #19  
Old 10-10-2018, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

I think the definition may not be complete in rebound . For me looking at jesse is big swings in sugar going lower is problematic for the body and she doesnt need to get to low sugar for it to occur

I can almost tell by symptoms as she will get lethargic and her inner lips will get reddish in color . At first i thought she was spiking but i would catch it on a drop that has been stopped in path by some force and was going up which i believe is the bodies stored sugar

this has been are primary conflict in jesses 8 years of being diabetic . Now this is just theoretical as most of this stuff is ( an educated guess ) . There may also be other factors that the body may spike sugar . Jesse had epilepsy and anxiety to load noises and that spiked her sugar probably from flooding the body with cortisol

the key to regulation for the body is stable sugar no big swings and i have seen where the body did not like any sugar below 150 . Probably do to the body becoming more accustomed to higher sugar
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Jesse-26 lbs - 14 years old - 9 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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  #20  
Old 10-10-2018, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

I don't think many have good results with Lantus. It's not the usual recommended insulin. Lantus is too flat too control post eating sugar spikes. For us human diabetics, Lantus works in combination with fast insulin {tight control strategy).
Hard to do with a dog, as you can't count on them to eat numerous times and at the right times. Humulin N {NPH) is the typical insulin.

I was surprised a vet recommended Lantus.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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