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My dog is requiring more insulin than normal.

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  • #31
    What is the Fructose Test?

    Can't seem to find out exactly what it is supposed to do. Not sure if I should have my Vet do one on Buddy if he doesn't gain some weight soon. I am going to do another curve on him Saturday. His BG seems to be hovering around the 160's (at least it was this morning and again tonight). Wondering if the can of EVO may be keeping it up there.

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    • #32
      Re: Buddy's 2nd Curve

      Hey Arlene,

      I just can't "get" the message in a curve unless I graph it - I think vets might benefit from charting these things. I can look at lists of numbers and get some basics but really need the visual to get a sense of how things are going and especially to compare curves. Sometimes you will have a new curve that's higher or lower than the last one but basically the same shape so you really get a sense of how the food and insulin and working with each other.

      Natalie

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      • #33
        Re: Buddy's 2nd Curve

        160s is excellent. Buddy will gain weight with blood sugar in that range as long as he's getting enough calories to gain.

        They can gain weight even when the blood sugar is mostly in the 200s as they are getting most of the glucose from their food at that point.

        I'm betting he just needs more calories per day. You will get there with such great blood sugar readings.

        Natalie

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        • #34
          Infections & BG

          Since I am still a newbie at all of this I was wondering if a bladder infection can cause the BG to go up. I am doing another curve on Buddy today and it was 213 when he woke up. Fed him his food and gave him 6U. Tested his ketones just a little while ago and he is spilling. His BG at 8:15 was 165. His BG for the past couple of days has been higher than normal. Wondering if I should cut back on the EVO duck and increase the WD Dry in his food.

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          • #35
            Re: Buddy's 2nd Curve

            It sure can! Anyone with diabetes is more prone to having infections than those who don't have the disease. Those with diabetes are especially apt to have urinary tract infections because when there's sugar in the urine, it makes a great place for bacteria to multiply.

            Most often, when there's an infection, you see the bg's go up but it's also possible to have one and see the bg's go down lower than normal in response to it--a lot like when you're sick--you might run a fever or you might have a below grade temperature.

            Buddy needs to have his urine checked and if there is an infection as you suspect, to have the vet prescribe some antibiotics to get rid of it. You might ask your vet if you can bring in a urine sample or if he/she prefers to take one at the hospital.

            The food had nothing to do with Buddy's getting the possible UTI; unfortunately it can come with the territory of diabetes.

            Kathy

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            • #36
              Re: Buddy's 2nd Curve

              I wonder about the ketone strips... it is very unusual for a dog with such low BGs to have ketones. Any chance they are not functioning properly?

              Rebound would be one potential explanation.

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              • #37
                Re: Buddy's 2nd Curve

                I know the food has nothing to do with the infection but I am wondering if I am giving him too much canned...1 can a day (1/2 at each feeding) and 1 cup WD. Have a call into the Vet...just took his BG again and it's 235. This is not like him. BTW, what is rebound?

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                • #38
                  Re: Buddy's 2nd Curve

                  When you did the curve you posted, Buddy was getting 1 1/2 cups of W/D dry and 1/3 can of Evo; his numbers were very good--when did you make the change to 1 cup of W/D and 1/2 can of Evo at each meal?

                  Originally posted by Dog Mom View Post
                  Did my first curve on Buddy yesterday and personally I don't think it looks so good. Doing another one today.

                  DATE TIME LEVEL FOOD
                  10/24/09 6:30:00 AM B4 FEEDING 180 1 1/2 CUPS WD/1/3 C EVO DUCK 2 LITE COOKIES
                  GAVE HIM 6U

                  10/24/09 8:30 AM 70

                  10/24/09 10:30AM 155 1 LITE COOKIE

                  10/24/09 12:30P B4 SNACK 251 1/2 CUP GREEN BEANS

                  10/24/09 2:30p 183

                  10/24/09 4:30 PM 129

                  10/24/09 5:15 PM 1 1/2 CUPS WD/1/3 C EVO DUCK 2 LITE COOKIESGAVE HIM 4.5 U

                  10/24/09 6:30 AM 94

                  10/24/09 8:30 PM 162

                  10/24/09 10:30 PM 237
                  According to this, Buddy was getting more food total when you did this curve than he's getting now. Generally, the more food eaten means more insulin needed to cover it.

                  Since Buddy needs to gain weight and it's not easy to do that on W/D because it's also used as a weight loss/weight maintenance food, I believe your vet suggested adding the 1 can of Evo daily to help him do that.

                  Rebound can happen when there's too much insulin being given. Having too much insulin causes the bg's to hit a low and the body's "self-defense" hormones who believe the system is in danger respond to that low by automatically sending the bg's to high levels to try to protect itself.

                  http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

                  When it's a case of rebound, the only way to stop it is less insulin, not more because only with less insulin can you stop the lows that trigger the highs.

                  According to this specialist, not using a special prescription diet shouldn't have that much effect on bg's:

                  http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com...09%09&pageID=8

                  Diabetes mellitus (Proceedings)
                  Apr 1, 2009
                  By: William D. Schall, DVM, DACVIM
                  CVC PROCEEDINGS
                  DVM 360

                  "The consequences of feeding a non-prescription diabetes diet are usually minimal as the increased dose of required insulin is seldom greater that 2-4%."

                  The largest portion of what Buddy's eating is prescription diabetes food, so I don't think the 1/2 can of Evo would be causing too much difference in his bg's; he was eating 1/3 of a can of that per meal when you did the recent curve that turned out so nicely.

                  Kathy

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                  • #39
                    Re: Buddy's 2nd Curve

                    Actually I changed him on Thursday....and it has been since Thursday when I got home that I noticed the change in his BG. The vet is calling in an antibiotic just in case. I guess it looks like I will put him back on his other regime of 1 1/2 & 1/3 Evo. Extremely thankful for this forum.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Buddy's 2nd Curve

                      So when I took his BG this morning it was down to 191. Gave him his 5U and his antibiotic...and I went back to his regular amount of food. I bought new cookies yesterday which have Vitamins E & C in them and are mostly made of Duck like his EVO. I am hoping I can find the cookies cheaper as they were 12.99 for a 16oz bag. They are made by Plato.

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                      • #41
                        Re: My 10 Yr Old Lab is rapidly losing weight

                        I too have a chocolate lab, age 10, who is losing weight like crazy too. She gets 27 units on insulin in the morning and 27 at night. I have an actual meter so I know her blood glucose is staying around 120-220. Those numbers are good for her. She gets a daily walk and I live on a farm so she's fairly active. My problem is that I cannot get her to eat. She's on WD and I add 1 scoop of California Natural dog food too. In the past that has encouraged her to eat. But now she's just not interested. 2 years ago she was about 64 lbs. She's now 55 lbs. That's just way too thin. Any suggestions on getting her to eat better?
                        Thanks.
                        Jeannine

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                        • #42
                          Re: My 10 Yr Old Lab is rapidly losing weight

                          Dog Mom: I’d try more protein – perhaps a good canned dog food that is low carb ( perhaps 5 % to 6 % carbs ) – in addition to what you currently feed.
                          In addition, I would suggest you stop feeding the carrots completely.

                          Same thoughts with Jeannine – additional protein in a good canned food.

                          My dog Zip - almost 5 years into this journey - needed something to "jazz up" the [ what is apparently ] awful tasting diabetic foods. The canned stuff did the trick for him.
                          I try to keep him around 650 to 700 cals per meal ( x 2 ) with no more than 8% carbs.
                          He is maintaining about 95 to 100 pounds, and normally has decent numbers.

                          As long as it is low in carbs, and without high glycemic indexes, I'll feed it to him.
                          So far, this has worked for him.
                          Paul
                          Last edited by fatdog55; 11-02-2009, 07:30 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Does Insulin lose it's potency after couple of months?

                            Buddy is on Humulin N and his BG has been a little on the high side since yesterday. I have used little more than half the bottle and it seems this is the second time this has happened. I know they have Exp. dates but just wondering if they can lose their potency. I am doing another curve on him and will post the results later tonight.

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                            • #44
                              Re: My 10 Yr Old Lab is rapidly losing weight

                              The longer you use a bottle, the more likely you can either see a degrading of the quality of the insulin or even an off potency because daily mixing is imperfect. Do you have a new bottle you could try?

                              If a new or reserve bottle doesn't resolve it, then you have to consider that there might be another problem if the blood sugar stays high.

                              Have you been changing the diet at all? That could account for it also, even if you didn't increase calories.

                              Natalie

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                              • #45
                                Re: My 10 Yr Old Lab is rapidly losing weight

                                I called the Pharmacy today and got a new bottle so I will be giving it to him with tonight's meal. I will see what it is like in the morning but will still post the curve tonight. I suspected an infection and he was on antiobiotics since last week. Last pill was given this morning.

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