Help! Switching from Novilin N to Vetsulin

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Weird BG curve

Like jesse girl said, a dog’s nadir can occur anytime during the day. The 74 BG reading is too low. Your vet is doing the right thing in reduces her insulin.

[MaggieLemons]

Re: Weird BG curve

Thank you for the responses! This forum is a godsend. We are still having a very tough time getting Maggie to eat all of her food each meal. I've been overseas visiting my parents so my husband has been handling the food routine. I plan on calling the vet for another checkup when I get back. I did get her urinalysis and CBC results before I left, which showed all normal levels except for a very slightly elevated bilirubin in her urine. It's just so strange that all of a sudden her BG is dropping so low. She's been diagnosed for a year and has been a ROCKSTAR about eating for the past 9 months. Always hungry, gobbled up every bite... now she isn't very interested at all. Her behavior, demeanor, and potty habits are all normal.

[jesse girl]

Re: Weird BG curve

Thank you for the responses! This forum is a godsend. We are still having a very tough time getting Maggie to eat all of her food each meal. I've been overseas visiting my parents so my husband has been handling the food routine. I plan on calling the vet for another checkup when I get back. I did get her urinalysis and CBC results before I left, which showed all normal levels except for a very slightly elevated bilirubin in her urine. It's just so strange that all of a sudden her BG is dropping so low. She's been diagnosed for a year and has been a ROCKSTAR about eating for the past 9 months. Always hungry, gobbled up every bite... now she isn't very interested at all. Her behavior, demeanor, and potty habits are all normal.

Yeah you may want to have some blood work done . With that always check for pancreatitis even if your not seeing all the symptoms . Appetite problems can be a precursor to the disease

Another factor your dog may miss you and that can suppress appetite

[Daisydog10]

Re: Weird BG curve

When Daisy's curve looked like that I realized her food was not keeping up with her insulin and soaked a little kibble at mealtime, ran another curve and adjusted her soaked kibble up or down, depending on when her nadir was, then added a little carb about 45 minutes before her nadir to keep her steady.

[amydunn19]

Re: Weird BG curve

What food are you feeding? Are you injecting the full dose even if she doesn’t eat all of her food? If so, you might consider reducing insulin proportionally with the amount of food she eats. If she eats 50 percent, cut dose 50% and so on.

[Steve]

Re: Weird BG curve

Mine hits her low anywhere from 4-6 hours but she’s on the 70/30. Then she shoots back up unfortunately. By hour 8-9 she’s super high again.

Maybe I missed something in my exploration of the articles and comments, but what does 70/30 mean?

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Weird BG curve

Maybe I missed something in my exploration of the articles and comments, but what does 70/30 mean?

70/30 is a mix of 70% Novolin N and 30% Novolin R...

[MaggieLemons]

Help! Switching from Novilin N to Vetsulin

HELP! I am freaking out, friends. Our vet has decided to switch our pup's insulin from Novolin N to Vetsulin.... a week and a half before an overseas vacation. Anyone who has switched to or who is currently using Vetsulin, what can you tell me?

Here's some backstory -
Maggie was diagnosed 2 years ago and has been on Novolin N since the beginning. She is a picky eater, which means every few months or so when family visits or our routine changes, she stops wanting to eat and gets completely out of whack. 2 weeks ago, she was diagnosed with a nasty infection in her right ear (MRSP). We are waiting on an appointment with a dermatologist to properly treat this. Her primary vet has her on a multitude of temporary medications for it. She also has COPD, and is incontinent.

-She weighs 48 normally- has lost 3 lbs since December.
-For about the last year, she has been on 16 units Novolin-N (U-100) at 6am and 6pm religiously.
-We (again, religiously) feed her 10-15 minutes prior to insulin - 1 cup 2x/day of Taste of the Wild Ocean (because she is allergic to chicken)
-She takes the following medications regularly-
Proin (40mg) 2x/day for incontinence
Cosequin for joint comfort
Hycodan 1x/evening for COPD coughing
-She is on the following additional medications for her ear -
Apoquel for suspected allergies/inflammation
Amikacin topically in her ear 2x/day for infection
Zeniquin 1x/morning orally for infection

She was at 670 BG at 3pm (no ketones) when I took her to her last ear check-up about 3 days ago, which spurred the vet to schedule a curve appointment yesterday.
-She has ALWAYS bottomed out at the 3 hour mark after insulin administration, around 100-150, and then usually spikes back up to 300s/400s.
-At her curve yesterday, she bottomed out at 180 and spiked back up to high 600s by 4pm. Her vet thinks that Vetsulin will absorb a little slower, and keep her regulated throughout the day rather than just the morning.

I am so nervous about trying this new insulin. The syringes are different. It has to be shaken, which is the complete opposite of Novolin-N. One vial only lasts 42 days after initial syringe puncture? I can only buy it at the vet, and not just down the road at any pharmacy. I have always kept a spare vial of Nolovin-N on hand "just in case" and was told this was not a good idea due to shelf life with Vetsulin. The cost is not a worry - we have insurance. I am just nervous about how long it will take her to transition/regulate with Vetsulin. Has anyone had any trouble with vetsulin? PLEASE share your tips/tricks/insights/experiences with me!

I recently purchased a glucometer (Alphatrak). Do I need to curve her? I will be home all day with her tomorrow on her first day of the Vetsulin, but both my husband and I are scheduled to work long days on her 2nd day. Is this safe?

Thank you so much for any information,
Maggie's Mama

[jesse girl]

Re: Help! Switching from Novilin N to Vetsulin

Hi and welcome not many transition to vetsulin from NPH . Jesse went from vetsulin to nph but that was almost 9 years ago when they removed vetsulin off the shelves because of so called problems with the insulin at that time

If your vet based a curve off of your dog with an infection may show up with higher numbers which i guess you are seeing

Testing at home will be very helpful

Making a change like this before leaving on vacation seems odd .Is your vets office going to be boarding her while your gone ?

[MaggieLemons]

Re: Help! Switching from Novilin N to Vetsulin

Hi Jesse Girl,

I am wondering myself if this infection and the stressed out state she's in is causing the unusually high evening BG levels. She's had 4 vet visits this month and my girl is SENSITIVE to vet visits, new meds, new people, everything.

What were the issues with Vetsulin in the past? Did your pup have any trouble on it?

To answer your question, we have never boarded Maggie. We have a pet sitter stay in our home with her and her sister.

Maggie's Mama

[jesse girl]

Re: Help! Switching from Novilin N to Vetsulin

Its very common to see higher numbers with infection . My jesse can get ear problems and when that happens her numbers go up until it clears . So basically you cant regulate a dog with an infection . The problem is you raise the dose to combat the higher sugar from the infection which maybe to much when the infection clears

At the time when vetsulin was taken off the market they claim vetsulin was basically unstable but i believe most of that was the inconsistency we see with dogs blood sugar as most dont get close to what normal blood sugar would look like and they blamed that on vetsulin . Not sure what they did to get FDA approval again

My personal opinion i dont think any insulin is completely appropriate for dogs but its good enough and dogs can tolerate higher sugar . Jesse was not on vetsulin very long but the action appeared to be similar to NPH or her body had a similar response to both insulin's . At the time i wasnt that concerned with vetsulin but had more concern with it not being available and i argued with jesses vet at the time to take her of it and go to NPH and once she made the change i was happy with that

Thats good you have a sitter . Kennels have been problematic for diabetic pups

[Raysaint]

Re: Help! Switching from Novilin N to Vetsulin

When you see sugar starting to be higher, I think it's hasty to just switch insulin. There's many reasons why sugar may be trending higher. That's what should be looked into first. And any infection is probably going to affect sugar.
I think it a bit irresponsible to just switch insulin, because that means a big change in the dog's body and it needs to be watched, and checked regularly, because there is going to be a change in numbers and curve pattern I would expect.

My vet discussed changing insulin as a last resort if we couldn't re-regulate when my dog has had some changes in his numbers.
Vets like to use Vetsulin because they sell it. Not saying it isn't appropriate for some dogs, but I'd never let my vet change without investigating bloodwork and urine, etc.

Making a big change like this when you're going to be away wasn't good timing in my opinion.

[LizE]

Re: Help! Switching from Novilin N to Vetsulin

I won't comment on the Vetsulin switch but I will offer advice on making a change right before you go on vacation.

When my husband and I took an anniversary trip to Italy my kids rearranged their lives to care for Snickers. An hour after our plane took off they fed her and gave her insulin. Soon after she threw up all her food. My kids freaked out so much from that episode that they lowered all her subsequent shots by 1 unit.

Her numbers for the next 10 days were great! I get back home and it soon becomes obvious that we have to go back to her original dosage. I now know that certain kinds of stress (like vacations, vet visits, baths, etc) are the equivalent extra exercise and I need to watch for low numbers.

Moral of the story is that it is entirely possible that your dog's current insulin needs could change from the stress of the vacation. Adding a new variable, like a different insulin, should probably wait until a more stable situation is at hand.

[bichons9]

Re: Help! Switching from Novilin N to Vetsulin

SORRY..I THINK I GOT MY ANSWER BY READING POST FROM LOLO re:Novolin 70/30......As many of you know, I hate Vetsulin..and even wonder about Alphatrak since FDA standards for animal products were disclosed to me..Of course, I have always worried about everything but would like to know..LiZE if after 8+ hours ..Is the BG spiking for your baby? BTW..as I read from site to site, it seems as if many (not here) misuse terms Novolin N vs Novolin 70/30...As already written..I am still looking for those who have switched from VETSULIN to Novolin 70/30.as I would really like to switch to a human insulin regulated by FDA
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=811447094

[bichons9]

Re: Weird BG curve

MIKE!!!! Is Lilly on Novolin 70/30???? I guess I was not paying attention to your signature!!!