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  #61  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:36 AM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riliey and Mo View Post
60 lbs x .2 = 12 unit. Lola was on a higher dose because of the infection.
Keep in mind the .2 units per pound recommendation is for a starting dosage. Many / most will require more, sometimes much more than the starting dosage.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9Ĺ years.
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  #62  
Old 02-19-2018, 03:47 PM
Lolo Lolo is online now
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

What kind of treat or snack would have a better chance of lowering glucose? I make treats for her that are just wheat flour, oats, canned pumpkin, cinnamon and an egg. Iím not sure what the flour will do to her glucose levels though.
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  #63  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

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Originally Posted by Lolo View Post
What kind of treat or snack would have a better chance of lowering glucose? I make treats for her that are just wheat flour, oats, canned pumpkin, cinnamon and an egg. Iím not sure what the flour will do to her glucose levels though.
As an experiment, Iíd try what you make or a Milkbone type of treat, or maybe 2-4 tablespoons of the normal meal. My thought is just to add a little carbohydrate so the body doesnít release stored carbohydrates. Of course this is an experiment, and might not do what you want.

As mentioned before, Iím a type-2 diabetic. My morning readings are usually in the 130s (higher than I like for MYSELF). The other nite I woke at 4am and tested at 120. I then ate a small piece of cheese (first thing that came to hand, no real thought) and then retested at 8am: 118. So, instead of my typical 130ish I was 118. Not a big difference, but it was something. Of course this was just one test (plan to do more), but I donít plan to get out of bed at 4am every morning😉

Some human diabetic books suggest eating every four hours (actually, never going longer than four hours between eating something). The between meal snacks would be tiny, like a bite of cheese or 6 almonds.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9Ĺ years.
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  #64  
Old 02-19-2018, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

It seems like anytime Iím optimistic about where itís heading something else happens. She developed an angry red rash on her stomach today and her eyes got so much worse just today. It feels like something else is going on with her besides just diabetes.
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  #65  
Old 02-21-2018, 05:35 PM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I copied this from another thread...
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Originally Posted by Lolo View Post
I am so tempted to change my dog’s food, but she’s so newly diagnosed and not at all under control yet. It just seems like I should try to get a handle on one thing before I change something else. But I do wonder if her food may be contributing to her fasting BG being so high. Is changing diet a good way to get fasting BG down?
Right. It’s best to change one thing at a time.

Concentrating on the insulin, her BG readings a few days ago were...

6:50a wake up 460
7/7:20a eat and insulin
10:30a 161
10:50a 130
11:25a 129
11:56a 115

Novolin 70/30 is 70% intermediate acting N and 30% fast acting R. The Fast acting component is normally used to correct a rise in BG after eating. The problem is that not all dogs spike after eating. It’s pretty likely that 30% R is too much and is causing her BG to drop too fast. The remaining N is then running out, causing the higher fasting number. If this is true, changing to straight Novolin N should help the situation.

It wouldn’t hurt to try. Other than fasting, her numbers are in a good range.
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Lily is a 61 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroid: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine

Last edited by MikeMurphy; 02-21-2018 at 05:54 PM.
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  #66  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

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Originally Posted by MikeMurphy View Post
It wouldnít hurt to try. Other than fasting, her numbers are in a good range.
I did reduce her dose to 16 because she was getting a little too low during the afternoon. She had a bad day on Tues which probably was a fluke. Itís only been a few days at 16 but sheís not dropping as fast/low now. I think Iíll probably need to take it up to 17 but Iím giving it a week. Sheís still in high 400s or even high 500s in the final hours before her next dose. And her BG is so volatile. A 10minute wall can still drop her 100 pts. It seems so unhealthy.
So you think N would possibly address high fasting BG better than a diet change? I just wondered if maybe something in her food wasnít digesting so it was sitting in her stomach raising her BG 9-12 hrs later. I donít even know if that makes scientific sense though.
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  #67  
Old 02-22-2018, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Jesse had a similar curve in the beginning on just N insulin . Big drop after food and insulin . I had a similar mindset that food was being digested late and nothing in the beginning . I tried all kinds of things as far as food that could be digested quickly . Like bread , pancakes , potatoes ,white rice and they did not have much impact on that early drop . What i ended up doing was splitting her dose half with dinner the other half 2 hours later . which helped

Now i believe the problem for your pup is being started on an insulin thats based on fast early digestion turning into sugar . Should have been started on N insulin . See what type of curve it displays . If you have a big rise after food and shot you could add R insulin .

Big drops after food and insulin are tough to solve. Your pups drop may have been artificially created with the R component of the insulin you are using
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jesse-26 lbs - 13 years old - 8 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of novolin a day sometimes novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar . total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of nph insulin depending on her fasting number
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  #68  
Old 02-22-2018, 07:59 AM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

So for anyone who has tried both a 70/30 and N, did you pup need more, less or same on N as compared to the 70/30 mix?
Iím so scared of making a change that raises her up into 600/700+ range again. She already has cataracts developing and her hind legs have issues. I hate the thought of doing something that raises her into danger zones and speeds up that damage. But I do know this process is also about trial and error.
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  #69  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:29 AM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Whats the weight of your dog ? You can get a starting dose my multiplying .2 by the weight of your dog . Now you could go probably higher to start but you cant no for sure what a starting dose would be with just N insulin

Now if you are worried about higher numbers you can buy some R insulin separately if you need it . if you do see a substantial rise after meal and shot you could add some to the N insulin .You can mix them together or give the separately . You may want to fight to not use it in the beginning just to see how N is working but you can have it if you need it . There are forum members experienced with it

The problem i surmise is at the beginning you saw cataracts and your vet felt you needed to slow down the process and the reason they went with 70/30 to get the numbers down faster and it did do that for part of the day but it may have created the instability in sugar you are seeing

giving N insulin can be a slower process and you may see higher sugar across the board until you find the correct dose . Maybe you can get lucky and find that dose fairly quickly with the info based on the 70/30 but if you start out with to much insulin that can lengthen the regulation process and could put you dog at risk to lower sugar
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jesse-26 lbs - 13 years old - 8 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of novolin a day sometimes novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar . total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of nph insulin depending on her fasting number
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  #70  
Old 02-22-2018, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Sheís 61 lbs. We started at 12 units on 70/30 and moved up to 16 after a week. Had slowly raised her to 19, but she was dropping too low at the 5-6 hr mark so we went back to 16 to be safe. I was going to raise up to 17 starting tonight because her low is around 200 at 16. No increase/decrease budges the numbers in the final 2-3 hrs before sheís due for her next dose.
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