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  #1  
Old 02-08-2018, 02:11 PM
Lolo Lolo is offline
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Default Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Hi,
My dog Lucy was diagnosed last Tuesday and it seems like she has steadily declined in such a short time. This all started (or I noticed it) when she was on Temaril for a cough. She had been on it for a week when I started to notice what I thought were side effects.. drinking a lot, peeing a lot, lethargic, muscle weakness, peed twice in her sleep. I tapered her off because I was afraid of just quitting cold turkey but she was on two weeks in total. Then I waited a week thinking the side effects would wear off once it was out of her system. Well they didnít wear off, they got worse so we went back to the vet. I donít know if the Temaril just aggravated a diabetic condition that was already there to the point that I finally noticed or if they actually were the fire starter. The vet says it was such a low dose and she was on it for such a short period of time that it couldnít have caused the diabetes this quickly.
Sheís about 60 lbs (was 64 before she started on the Temaril and went down to 60)... he started her at 12 units Novolin 70/30. She seems to be doing a little better... good and bad days... but on Tuesday she woke up and cataracts had started to form. Brought her in and he upped her dose to 16. He tested her in the office on Tues (abt 2.5 hrs after breakfast/insulin) and I think she was 360. He never did a curve because he said theyíre unreliable in office and that I should do it at home. So it finally arrived yesterday and I did a curve this morning and these are the terrifying #s so far (he wanted it every 30 mins for first 6 hrs). Iím going to keep testing every hour til PM feeding/dose... and then Iíll run out of strips til more come tmw.
(Also, Sheís sleeping a lot and he advised against taking her on walks because sheís having trouble with hind legs)

6:30a wakes up and itís 605!
She eats grain free Fromms with some chicken mixed in so sheíll eat it all
6:55a (immediately after eating/insulin) 624
7:55a 597
8:25a 462
8:57a 439
9:28a 415
9:58a 427
10:29a 486
10:59a 456
11:30a 472
12n 477
12:30 498
1:01 606! (I gave her a tiny homemade chicken jerky at 12:44... I made it myself and itís literally just dried chicken)
1:30 534
2:35 578

Itís so high ... never below 400... and at the same time so up and down. I texted him the results and he wants me to increase to 20 (sheís been getting 16 since Tuesday PM). I randomly tested her last night when the meter arrived just to make sure I had the hang of it for today and she was at 546 at 5:45 (which would have been 11 hrs after her AM dose).
It all feels scary and like such random guesswork as to dosing. It seems like sheís getting worse by the day. I would appreciate any thoughts, help, advice.
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2018, 05:03 PM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

hi and welcome

its very possible your dogs medication could have tipped her to being diabetic . it is believed giving steroids in dogs has the potential for causing diabetes

cataracts are one of the sided affects with diabetes in dogs and blindness is the result but most dogs dont have difficulty with this as smell is there primary sense ears are probably next and site last . some do get cataract surgery

regulation is a slow process slowly raising the dose to higher sugar . moving to fast can slow down the regulation process and puts a dog at risk to low blood sugar .

the 70/30 is unusual as a first choice for a new diabetic as most either use NPH or vetsulin
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jesse-26 lbs - 13 years old - 8 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of novolin a day sometimes novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar . total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of nph insulin depending on her fasting number
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Old 02-08-2018, 05:18 PM
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farrwf farrwf is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolo View Post
Hi,
My dog Lucy was diagnosed last Tuesday and it seems like she has steadily declined in such a short time. (Also, Sheís sleeping a lot and he advised against taking her on walks because sheís having trouble with hind legs).

Hello and welcome. It's likely the weakness in the legs is diabetic neuropathy and will pass when the blood / glucose goes down.
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Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dadís loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.

Last edited by farrwf; 02-09-2018 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 02-08-2018, 05:23 PM
Lolo Lolo is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

The Novolin 70/30 is unusual, as in he doesn’t know what he’s doing and you should get another vet? It seems like she’s getting bad really fast. Is it concerning that he wants to increase her does to 20 this quickly? She was on 12 units for 7.5 days, 16 units for 2 days (since Tues PM) and now it will go up to 20 units... in about 10 minutes when she’s due for her dose.
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  #5  
Old 02-08-2018, 05:51 PM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolo View Post
The Novolin 70/30 is unusual, as in he doesnít know what heís doing and you should get another vet? It seems like sheís getting bad really fast. Is it concerning that he wants to increase her does to 20 this quickly? She was on 12 units for 7.5 days, 16 units for 2 days (since Tues PM) and now it will go up to 20 units... in about 10 minutes when sheís due for her dose.
Although the Novolin 70/30 isnít usually the starting insulin, a few of us have used it. I had my Annie on 70/30 for several months, but spent more time mixing Novolin-N and Novolin-R. In Annieís case it was 7 units N and 2 units of R. I preferred the two separate vials of insulin, but never had any real problems with the 70/30.

Yes, we would like more like 7 days on a dosage, but the vet is probably thinking your pupís blood glucose is so high, the dog can handle the quicker increase. Every dog / situation is different, but 20 units for a 60 pounder isnít all that concerning to me (then again, I was just a parent of a diabetic dog). My 18 pound dog spent most of her time on 7 - 9 units: again, every dog is different.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9Ĺ years.
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Old 02-08-2018, 06:22 PM
Lolo Lolo is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Thanks everyone! It’s scary and I appreciate the advice. It all feels like such imprecise guesswork but I guess that’s the way it is?
I actually called the vet and he said to take it up to 17. He’ll loan me one if his glucose meters in a few days and I’ll test with that just to make sure mine isn’t off. It seems odd that her numbers have gotten so elevetated since she’s been on insulin. You’d think they would come down not go the other way.
Her last reading an hour before eating/insulin was 690 which I know is dangerously high.
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:19 AM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Hi and welcome to you and Lucy.

What is her age and breed? Has the vet done any additional blood work yet? There are several concurrent conditions like hypothyroidism and infections that can have an effect on insulin.

Itís good that you are home testing. That will help a lot.
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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroid: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:00 AM
Lolo Lolo is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Sheís 11.5 and a complete mystery mix. I did dna testing years ago and it was a mess of tiny percentages including some terrier, Alaskan malamute and chow among them.
He hasnít done any additional blood testing. Iím wondering if I shouldnít switch vets. Iíve gone to him since she was a puppy, but he just doesnít seem very proactive in terms of testing. She does have a history of valley fever (we live in AZ and itís not uncommon here). Sheís had it twice (diffuse and then respiratory) and was on fluconazol for awhile. Itís been a few years since she had it bad but it never totally goes away. He tested her last month to make sure it hadnít flared up again.

The only thing that seems to bring her levels down is right after sheís active. Iím wondering if thatís not why she tests lower when sheís in his office. Because Iíve gotten her up and out and moving around to get her there.
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2018, 09:59 AM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Exercise usually lowers blood glucose. You might want to try a test by testing before, and then soon after exercise.

It seems excitement can affect dogs by either raising, or lowering their BGs. Thatís why home testing can be better than taking them to the vet clinic.

Unfortunately, what happens in one dog might not be the same in another. Heck, what I think would happen to my Annie sometimes would be the opposite!😏.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9Ĺ years.
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  #10  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:51 PM
Lolo Lolo is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

The exercise issue is kind of dicey though. She definitely has some neuropathy in her hind legs. Just today I gave her a new toy and she was running around a bit playing with it and her back leg kind of collapsed. I asked the vet if I should take her on short walks to try to get her numbers down and he said no walks. He did suggest we may want to add b12 for the leg weakness but hasnít gotten back to me with a dosage yet.
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