Gus, the mini-schnauzer an Angel March 7, 2018

[MomofGus]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

Vet recheck this morning for Gus for his UTI. Everything is clear in that department. As for upping his insulin another unit, my vet said since he is acting fine (normal behavior for his silly self) - no excessive drinking, urination, etc that she would leave it up to me to go 1 more unit to 14 twice a day. His readings are still erratic since the UTI ranging in 600's, 400s one day, then 500, then 300, then today back to 500's. I told her I'd do another 12 hr curve this weekend so that the antibiotic will be out of his system, and then see where we go. She said since I do home testing frequently, and his behavior is fine, and if I was comfortable with that, then we'd leave him on his current 13 units twice/day for awhile longer. We are only 2.5 months into this and she doesn't feel need for any further testing and that he's just one of those dogs that takes awhile and will always be erratic with his readings. He's been on 13 units Novolin N since 10/21.

[WRoberson]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

Sounds like Gus and Sadie read the same book. After months of playing the up and down numbers game we now look at the weekly average for morning and night feedings and as long as it within her norms accept that she is doing her thing. My vet looks at her curves and average readings then mumbles "Schnauzer"

[MomofGus]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

I think that is why my vet is leaving it up to me whether to up his dose or not at this point, based on how he is feeling and fact that I monitor regularly. Now, this morning's fasting reading was 334, which for him is good. If I can just keep him in 300's, I'd be totally thrilled. Anything below 500/400 on a regular basis would be good in my book as long as there aren't any other problems going on. As has been said by others here, each dog is different, each dog has their 'norm'.

[Lee04]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

Thank you, Amy. I had not read that anywhere about schnauzers being harder to regulate. I'm just so glad I got a second opinion and have a vet who didn't give up so quickly and knowing it takes time to regulate. I will keep that in mind about the fish oil. Do you think it would be beneficial to him at this early stage? I'm hesitant to add anything without my new vet approving. I talked to her the other day about maybe adding more fiber, such as a little bit of pumpkin. She said to be very careful with any fiber supplement, especially if sugar free because some now has Xylitol which is known to be lethal to dogs. I only asked about a little more fiber because his stools seem hard and sometimes strains to go. But, I'm also wondering if the frozen green beans would serve as extra fiber.

And, thanks to this great forum, I have been able to gain knowledge that I would otherwise not have had, and it's enabled me to know things to talk to the vet about. I didn't have any insight about canine diabetes until I started reading here.

Hi,
I have a Schnauzer, too! Dasani had some high numbers for awhile in the beginning of the journey. I eventually took him to see an internal medicine vet, who has helped us the most. I wanted to chime in on the fish oil. The internal med vet did blood work and noted high liver enzymes and had us start on 500mg fish oil a day. I don't know if it's the fish oil or the 1 unit increase of vetsulin that has us on a good path, but we now have numbers down in the low 100s . We are due to make another visit soon and have blood work done and I can only guess that his iiver enzymes have improved and with less inflammation, his blood glucose is better, too. This is just our experience, but wanted to share with you.
Lee

[Auddog]

I'm hesitant to add anything without my new vet approving. I talked to her the other day about maybe adding more fiber, such as a little bit of pumpkin. She said to be very careful with any fiber supplement, especially if sugar free because some now has Xylitol which is known to be lethal to dogs. I only asked about a little more fiber because his stools seem hard and sometimes strains to go. But, I'm also wondering if the frozen green beans would serve as extra fiber.

Hi there Gus's Mom,
I'm a little late in doing this, but first I wanted to welcome you to the forum!

In regards to the extra fiber, my dog Bazzle was going through a similar situation. He was doing fine on the WD for quite a while, because it has a pretty high fiber content in it already, but after a round of antibiotics it kind of stopped him up. Even when he was done with the antibiotics and he was clear of infection, his blood sugar was still elevated, and he was still acting a bit constipated. My vet suggested we add pumpkin puree or baby food butternut squash to his diet for the extra fiber. It worked out perfectly for Bazz! Not only did it move things along, but it actually brought his blood sugar down back into his pre-infection/antibiotics range.

I think the important thing about adding fiber is to read labels!! When I was tracking down pumpkin and squash, i was also worried about the added ingredients that companies put in there. All of the baby food brands I've looked at only put pureed squash and water in their little jars, so Bazz stuck with that for a few weeks. Then I remembered that Libbey's makes pure pumpkin puree (for us bakers that like to put our own spices in pumpkin pie). I looked at the ingredients, just to be sure, and all it says is pumpkin . Now I mostly give him pumpkin (cause it's cheeper), but he still gets squash from time to time.

Green beans work great too for that added fiber! I used to give Bazz frozen green beans as treats, but I quickly learned that those beans didn't agree with him (I cleaned up puke for a couple of days, before I realized the beans were the culprit). So we switched from green beans to little pieces of boiled chicken as his treats. I've also read of people here on the forum using Benifiber, broccoli, and cauliflower as other sources of fiber.

I've also read that fish oil can help with mild constipation too. I have been giving Bazzle wild Alaskan salmon oil twice a day because of the joint, coat, and skin benifits, but when i found out about the constipation benifitis too it was an added bonus. I give Bazz less than the recommended amount because it's essentially pure fat, and I can't remember where I read it, but I read somewhere that large amounts of fat is not the best for diabetics. I'm not sure if it's because I give him less or not, but I don't notice any blood sugar changes in Bazz when I forget to give him a dose of salmon oil.

It sounds like you are doing a great job with Gus's so far! I've also read that schnauzers can be tough to regulate, so I want to wish you the best of luck!

Audrey & Bazzle

[MomofGus]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

I upped Gus's insulin another unit to 14 twice/day starting yesterday. His numbers still running upper 400's. Also started adding fish oil to his evening meal. I'm still unsure on the amount I can give him. I researched the internet and still confused. For now, I'm giving him half the liquid from a 1200 mg capsule (giving the other half to my other schnauzer). Wondering if this is enough to get any benefit or if giving the entire 1200mg would be too much.

[amydunn19]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

I don't know but this thread has an article regarding overdosing on fish oil.
http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5459

I have found the Omega 3 oils are supposed to be the most helpful for helping with triglycerides. I use a Grizzley Oil now that is specifically Omega 3. Maggie's food had more of the Omega 6, which is not as useful.

[MomofGus]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

So, I've upped his dosage of Novolin N to 14 units this past Sunday and so far this week, he's not responded to the additional unit. He's been in the lower 500's most of the week. He was doing better than that previously. Sure doesn't act like he's that high. No excessive drinking, sleeping. Pretty active little guy for the most part. Starting new bottle of test strips today, and in a couple days, it's time for new bottle of insulin. I had started giving fish oil, but stopped it yesterday to see if that was making him not have any change. Guess I'll give it a few more days at this dose before talking to vet or upping again. So frustrating. I feel like we're not getting anywhere.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

Over the years, I've seen a handful of mini Schnauzers who have had inconsistent responses to a dose of insulin. They have gone along fine for months at one dose and then suddenly had very high or very low blood sugar, requiring a substantial change in units. More months go by and another abrupt change.

Also, however, Cushing's disease is quite common in this breed as well, so if, as time goes on, his insulin dose goes up into the 20s with no response, that is something to consider, along with hypothyroidism if that hasn't been checked.

It is always good to consider that a bottle of insulin may be damaged in shipping or storage, especially in heat of summer and cold of winter.

We always kept a bit of the previous bottle on hand when we switched to a new one. Then, if a new bottle seemed to be giving very different results, we could compare it with an injection of the previous bottle to determine if the insulin itself was bad. It's also a great backup in case you accidentally drop and break the working bottle.

Natalie

[MomofGus]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

At the vets last week, she indicated she's not too concerned at this point since it's still fairly early, about upping insulin more. She says he's not quite in the middle of the road for most schnauzer's. I'll give it another week on this new dose and discuss with the vet if there is no downward trend - at least lower than 400's. I'd be thrilled if we could get into the 300's and stay there, even though that is high. I'm not sure at what point she will want to check for thryroid/cushings. His next regular checkup is February unless we have a problem, which will probably be another UTI if his numbers stay high.

New insulin bottle should be started in another day or so. Last 2 morning fasting readings were better, but after eating stayed spiked up 4-5 hrs later.

[amydunn19]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

We have also seen schnauzers who just suddenly break resistance (even if you aren't having textbook resistance right now), but nonetheless, the insulin may just break through and start working after a certain amount of time. Have I asked about triglycerides from the blood work? Getting that number lowered could help too.

[MomofGus]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

Just an update on Gus. Upped the dose to 15 units from 14 this week. Was on 14 for a month, with small improvement, but still too high. He goes for recheck at end of month. Hopefully, by then, we'll have more improvement. Curve is pretty good as far as a curve goes. He'll go 2-3 days doing really well with numbers for him, and then it's back to another couple days of higher numbers in 400 and low 500 at fasting. Then, of course, there is the food spike after eating, which is expected. If we have a good fasting number before the shot, we have almost 100-200 pt. spike from eating, then it starts to trend downward into mid-low 300's.

[amydunn19]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

Can you post any of your curves? A month at the same dose with no improvement is a little bit long. Did you see any 100-200 range numbers?

Are you giving any omega 3 oil? Did you guys ever look at thyroid testing?

[MomofGus]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

Just a little update on Gus. It's been 5 months since diagnosis. He had vet checkup this past week and overall, he's doing pretty good. Numbers still aren't where they should be, but there is still improvement going on. Last curve done last week indicates improvement. Vet did complete blood workup and everything was good, his urine check was excellent - no sugar, no ketones. Vet was laughing at herself for being excited that there was no sugar showing. Did thyroid workup too, and got the report yesterday that that came back normal. So, it appears, he is just being a stubborn schnauzer as is common. One thing I will say may be the cause of improvement in his numbers is that I've discovered that maybe I hadn't been giving his injections under the skin but into the skin more. So, I've really been paying attention to that, and I think it is the result of the improvement in his BG levels He's seems to be curving between upper 300's into low 200 and couple days into high 100's, which is excellent for him. We're having more better days than we have been since making sure I put the needle under the skin when I have it pinched up. For now, he remains on 15 units Novolin N twice/day. And one other tweak is that he's eating more wet w/d than the dry. He was getting 2/3 cup of dry w/d with tblsp of wet, but now he is getting 1/4 can of w/d, and 1/3 cup dry. His weight is good. Since all this has started, he's lost 3#, which is fine since he was a little overweight when we started.

[jesse girl]

Re: Gus-Newly Diagnosed mini-schnauzer

very nice update

nice to know how gus is doing and its sounds quite well