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Old 06-19-2018, 07:35 AM
CrazyDogMom CrazyDogMom is offline
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Default Newly diabetic and insulin doesn't seem to be helping

My 13 year old beagle Sammy was diagnosed with diabetes almost a month ago. The vet started him on 10 units of Caninsulin once a day as he only eats once a day at dinner time. After 2 weeks, Sammy was still drinking a lot and urinating a lot, mostly in the evening after eating and over night. During the day, he doesn't seem too thirsty and does not need to urinate as much. The vet had us increase his dose to 11 units and then again to 12 units with no change. He had a glucose curve last week and his blood sugar is rising to 20 after eating and insulin and there is no change after the insulin. His sugar is still high in the morning and the lowest it gets to is 11 right before his next meal. Now we are at 14 units once a day after feeding at 5 pm. It has been 4 days, but he is still as thirsty as ever and having accidents in the house and needing to go out every 30 min to an hour in the evening and over night. He is also very tired. All he does is sleep all the time. We are supposed to go back to the vet in another week and a half. How long did it take until your dog was regulated and how long until the increased thirst and urination went away? If 14 units was enough, would I be seeing a change yet or does it take longer for the dog to adjust? Everything I have read, says it's better to have 2 meals and 2 dosages of insulin, but I have asked my vet about this and he keeps telling me to continue with once a day. He seems to be hinting that there may be underlying issues that are making Sammy not respond to the insulin, but I feel like we need to experiment with the dosage amount, schedule, and insulin type more first before just jumping to that. I haven't started testing his blood at home, but did just get a human blood monitor the other day so that I can start. Any tips or similar experiences would be appreciated. I am new to this and it is breaking my heart to see my baby this way. It's been a month of sleepless nights and constant worrying.
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:34 PM
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amydunn19 amydunn19 is offline
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Default Re: Newly diabetic and insulin doesn't seem to be helping

Welcome! I hate to say so bluntly that your vet is steering you wrong - intermediate insulin only lasts 12 hours usually at a max. I think we have had maybe one dog who could make it on one shot a day but it is not the norm. I would recommend finding a new vet with more experience with diabetes.

How much does Sammy weigh? What is he eating? Where do you live - Canada or overseas? I am thinking about alternatives that might be available where you live for food and insulin.

There is a section on the site regarding home testing.
Look through the threads for info on testing and videos to help.

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15

Also, we are glad to help. Feel free to post questions, etc. in this thread and someone will be here to help.
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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Old 06-20-2018, 06:17 AM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Newly diabetic and insulin doesn't seem to be helping

hi and welcome

my jesse is also a beagle and was diagnosed over 8 years ago

My jesse eats just one meal a day too and that is not the norm . Now it does work for jesse but i actually give her 3 shots of NPH insulin

Caninsulin was originally designed as a once a day insulin but in most cases that does not work . What your doing different is giving one meal and maybe that could work if you attain a dose that may carry for the entire 24 hour period . I thought it could possibly be done with one meal and one shot especially with long acting human insulin's like levemir . My jesse would only max out at about 18 hours on NPH with one shot so that was not going to work for jesse

Her routine i give her dinner and half her shot at 5:30 pm then i give her the other half of insulin at 7:30 pm . I split her dose for particular reasons . At 7:30 am i give her a reduced shot and a small milk bone snack and that has worked for her for 8 years . Her total amount of insulin is 7 to 9 units and she weighs 26 pounds . Thats on the low side for dogs

After a month on insulin we usually see the diabetic symptoms go away even if the numbers are still kind of high .

A single dose may or may not work with one meal and shot . most do 2 shots and 2 meals that did not work for my jesse and she was difficult to regulate taking almost 6 months to become stable with her routine and sugar

If the one shot has to be changed to 2 you could do something like jesse and give a smaller shot and a snack to carry her through to dinner

My jesse is also 13 years old . beagles are easy to test sugar at least jesse was . I use her inner lip above the canine tooth . No pain and no hair . i have probably tested there 10,000 times or more with no problems . Now a dog can be scared of the spring action of the lance device so doing some practice tests to get your dog use to it is helpful . Beagles have big lips so lots of area to test . The home testing is what will help immensely.
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Jesse-26 lbs - 15.5 years old - 10 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 8 and 10 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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Old 06-20-2018, 06:52 AM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: Newly diabetic and insulin doesn't seem to be helping

Most dogs are on twice daily meals and insulin shots. I agree with amydunn, your vet seems to be advising differently than most vets.

You're trying to control a whole 24 hours with one dose of insulin, and obviously that won't last past 10 or 12 hours, so continuing to increase the dose makes it dangerous in the first 12 hours.

You need to make a decision, listen to your vet or seek other advice.

It does take some time to regulate, so don't expect great numbers consistently in a month. It took me a year to get things working to my satisfaction.

14 units is a lot for a beagle. Get him on 2 meals/shots a day, and lower his dose to 0.5 units per kg of dog weight. That's the starting point, then wait a week, do a curve, and adjust insulin probably up a unit. Repeat.

The peeing, drinking and things like that are normal at first but will diminish as the new routine starts to regulate.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:05 AM
Lolo Lolo is offline
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Default Re: Newly diabetic and insulin doesn't seem to be helping

Agree with all the other comments. I would see another vet or a specialist because I don’t think 1x/day is best practice. My vet wasn’t very knowledgeable on diabetes and was steering us wrong. It took me awhile to seek another opinion because I really liked my vet, but it wasn’t until I saw a specialist and got better guidance and a change in meds that I saw an improvement.
I think if you test at Home you’ll be able to see that it’s not lasting 24 hours and that Sammy should be getting a food and insulin every 12 hours.
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:37 AM
CrazyDogMom CrazyDogMom is offline
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Default Re: Newly diabetic and insulin doesn't seem to be helping

Sammy is 36 lbs, down from 40 lbs when first diagnosed (he's never been overweight, just is a lot taller and longer than most beagles - I rescued him so good possibility he may be mixed with another breed as well). He's actually looking too skinny right now. He eats 3 cups of Actrium dry food once a day, which is what he has been eating for a long time. He has always done well on this food and we have tried a lot throughout the years since most foods seem to bother his stomach. I live in Canada. I think the biggest problem is that even with this large dose, his glucose levels do not go down after he eats and gets his insulin. They dont seem to decrease until about 12 hours after his food and insulin shot. The vet said it remained at 20, 2 hours after eating and then again was checked every 2 hours and was still at a 20 the following morning. I tried to check his sugar at home last night, but made the mistake of using his ear and could not get enough blood. I am going to watch some more videos and try again today as I want to see if the 14 units are decreasing his sugar at all throughout the evening. I want to try his lip, but am nervous he may bite me. He's been pretty grumpy since he first started not feeling well. We go back to the vet end of next week to see if the 14 units are doing anything to his glucose levels, but I am looking around to try to find a different vet in my area with more knowledge of diabetes. One more question - is the extreme fatigue normal? He is older so he already sleeps a lot to begin with, but since about a week before diagnosis, all he does is sleep and when he is awake, he just lays on the floor. He never used to just lay on the floor. Same with after he goes to the bathroom outside, he just lays down in the grass, which he has never done before, other than when he is sun bathing. Usually he likes to explore while he is outside. I know it takes time to find what works for your dog and he is obviously feeling pretty yucky since he is far from being regulated, but just want to make sure this is normal. I have 3 dogs, but I have been really lucky and they've never been sick, other than small infections here and there, so this is very new to me.
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