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  #11  
Old 04-06-2009, 09:35 PM
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eyelostit eyelostit is offline
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Default Re: Kibbi 5yr old chihuahua mix diabetes & cushings

Hi and Welcome Mary Ann and Kibbi

I was wondering if the food you are using is the Nutro Adult Senior food in the silver bag, I use some of this. Is this what you feed and how much does Kibbi get with her meals.
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Dolly & Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X * Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went. Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday
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  #12  
Old 04-06-2009, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: Kibbi 5yr old chihuahua mix diabetes & cushings

I see you mentioned that you are testing Kibbi's first pee in the morning with the Ketodiastix.

This can give you a high reading. The urine collects glucose that washes out of the blood when BG is over 180. The first pee represents urine that's been collecting glucose for several hours. I always test after she's had her morning pee.

When she gets regulated her urinations will be less frequent so you'll have to be on your toes.

Lucy was still getting urine readings in 500-1000 range when her BG's were in the 200s to 300's.

Even though we home test her BG I still use the Ketodiastix to watch for Ketones.

Rick

Last edited by Fishslayer; 04-06-2009 at 10:42 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-07-2009, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: Kibbi 5yr old chihuahua mix diabetes & cushings

Wow!!! Kibbi finally showed a NEG this morning. (HAPPY, HAPPY,HAPPY) According to what the Vet said I will be reducing th insulin to 23u. for the day. The past few days I've been waiting about 1/2hr after feeding to give the insulin. Maybe this is the way to go??

He is feeling frisky and his urine output & drinking also has improved. Because he is starting to put weigh on again I've been cutting back on the amount of food. He is still eating well and I want to keep his weigh at about 20lbs so he doesn't become overweigh again. He gets about 3/4c of Nutra and a handful of chicken breast with a trace of rice twice a day.

The Vet told me to only check the first urine of the day. But for my own peace of mind I sometimes check it again a few hours after I give him shot.

It is such a comfort to share this with such caring people. You guys are the best!!!
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  #14  
Old 04-07-2009, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: Kibbi 5yr old chihuahua mix diabetes & cushings

Mary Ann,

I can give you a 3X a day urine monitoring program that would let you have an idea of how things are going morning, noon and night:

http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Monitoring_Urine.aspx

"Have pet owner test urine three times a day: before the first meal (test 1), before the second meal (test 2), and late in the evening (test 3)."

Refer to the following table: (which is shown at the link above).

HTH!

Kathy
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  #15  
Old 04-07-2009, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Kibbi 5yr old chihuahua mix diabetes & cushings

If Kibbi's a cooperative pee'er, you can have him go out, empty his bladder, and then ask him to pee again in a half hour or an hour. That will give you a fresh urine sample - urine that has been generated only very recently.

Sometimes it seems like vets think we will all go psycho if we test anything! LOL After all, a urine stick isn't very invasive!! The neighbors might think you're weird, but if Kibbi doesn't care, what the heck!!

My feeling has always been that he's my dog so I set the standard for how often I test him!!

That may make me a challenging client...

Natalie
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  #16  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:42 PM
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Default Kibbi's Update

Hi!!!
Just checking in to give update on Kibbi.

After 1 1/2 months on insulin Kibbi's sugar glucose levels are finally coming down in to a more normal range. The doctor also tested for Cushings and prescribed Trilostane. After lots of reading on this site & the Cushings site, I decided to hold off on the Trilostane and work only with the diabetes.

I'm so thankful I did. His heavy water drinking and peeing is over. He is in great spirits.

Question, are the signs of diabetes and cushings the same?? He had no hair loss, skin problems or weakness in his back muscles.

I'm beginning to wonder why the Vet tested for cushings, other than the fact that it took so long to get the sugar in line. Kibbi will be going to the Vet on Monday for a blood curve. I'm hoping for some more good news.

Thank you all for your support.

Mary Ann
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  #17  
Old 04-09-2009, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Kibbi's Update

Mary Ann,

Diabetes and Cushing's share quite a few similar signs:

http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/Zwicker/

Canine Hyperadrenocorticism, Diabetes Mellitus, or Both?
Kirsten Zwicker, DVM; Perry J. Bain, DVM, PhD; Pauline M. Rakich, DVM, PhD; Kenneth S. Latimer, DVM, PhD

Class of 2003 (Zwicker), Department of Pathology (Latimer), and Athens Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory (Rakich), College of Veterinary Medicine, The University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602-7388

If you take a look at the table #3 section, you'll see just how many. There are also times when the problems of diabetes can result in false positive Cushing's results. When the diabetes has become better controlled, these "Cushing's signs" can go away if that disease isn't present.

"ACTH stimulation test-

[Cushing's] "Exaggerated cortisol response (22 g/dl or more) in pituitary and adrenal HAC
"Little to no response (17 g/dl or less) in iatrogenic HAC and normal patients

[Diabetes] "Endocrine tests can be abnormal in stressed DM patients"

"Plasma ACTH concentration Pituitary HAC

[Cushing's] "normal to high (>40 pg/ml)
"Adrenal and Iatrogenic HAC - <20 pg/dl

[Diabetes] "Can be increased in a stressed DM patient."

"Low-dose dexamethasone suppression test

[Cushing's] "No cortisol suppression with either pituitary or adrenal HAC
"Slight suppression, but total still >1.4 g/dl seen with pituitary dependent HAC

[Diabetes] "Endocrine tests can be abnormal in stressed DM patients."

High-dose dexamethasone suppression test

[Cushing's] "Cortisol suppression in ~ 75% of pituitary HAC
"No suppression in ~ 25% of pituitary HAC and 100% of adrenal HAC

[Diabetes] "Endocrine tests can be abnormal in unregulated diabetics"

When you look at the steps for controlling diabetes, you'll see it brought up that one of the possible reasons for insulin resistance can be another disease--Cushing's is one of those mentioned because the high cortisol levels from it can be why the bg's aren't coming down.

Hope Kibbi's Monday curve will be a good one. Think it will because you're saying that Kibbi is drinking and urinating much less!

Kathy
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  #18  
Old 04-12-2009, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: Kibbi 5yr old chihuahua mix diabetes & cushings

Just wanted to welcome you and Kibbi to the board, and let you know that there are some of the greatest people in the world here!! I am so glad to hear that Kibbi is feeling better, and the bg numbers are coming down to a more manageable level...will keep our fingers crossed for Monday...be sure to let us know how it goes.

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky
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  #19  
Old 04-12-2009, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Kibbi 5yr old chihuahua mix diabetes & cushings

Hi All!

My happiness was short lived. I'm only testing with the urine stripes right now. After 1 1/2 months Kibbi's levels finally showed great improvement.On 3/31 he was down to the neg range on 4/1 back up to 2 after that the next 8 days were nice and low. In the evening of 4/9 I took him for a walk and we overdid it a bit. (he loves going out for walks) so the next morning sugar levels rose back up to 2.
Could it have been caused by the extended walk??? Since than it keeps going more up than down and I can't figure out why. Kibbi is still eating and drinking the same food and getting food and insulin at the same time every day. Any imput would help a whole bunch.

Mary Ann
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  #20  
Old 04-12-2009, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Kibbi 5yr old chihuahua mix diabetes & cushings

Mary Ann,

Normally, exercise lowers bg's. What may have happened is that the extended walk lowered them too much. Even though they may not have gone down far enough to trigger an "official" low, the counter-regulatory hormones may have been brought into play.

If you follow Margaret and Lucy's thread from the point at the link below, you'll see they're also trying to cope with a similar situation--where the bg's haven't gone down far enough to call it an official low followed by rebound, but the effect is the same.

http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthre...?t=596&page=17

Some dogs are more sensitive to this than others. We had a little one on another board who was very easily controlled and was quite steady with his numbers. But every time he got to an 85 reading, you would have all the symptoms of a low/hypo; the meter said otherwise. Their answer was to slightly decrease his insulin so that while his numbers stayed in a very nice zone, they didn't go down far enough to trigger his low/hypo symptoms.

I don't know how much a curve done tomorrow will tell you about Kibbi's bg's because this has happened. Know you need to let your vet know how well Kibbi had been doing for a week prior to this, about the longer than usual walk, and that you've been having high bg's from this point on.

If you can postpone the curve for a couple of days more, I think by staying with the usual routine, you should see Kibbi's readings start coming down. When the counter-regulatory hormones are triggered by something, it will take about 2-3 days or more for them to settle back into normal levels.

People who have a pet hit a low or an actual hypo have the same situation in that after the low, the bg's go skyrocketing for a bit afterward--it's the release of the counter-regulatory hormones that does it.

Staying with your usual amount of food and insulin should bring them down.

HTH!

Kathy
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