My Dog Pip is an Angel 08.30.13...

[k9diabetes]

Re: My Dog Pip

Hi Pam,

So sorry to hear that Pip's struggles continue. We went through quite a bit of this with Chris when he was a senior.

Could you post the reference (normal) ranges for the abnormal results? I'm fairly familiar with levels for things like AlkP but I don't see any Lipase results listed in copies of bloodwork I have here.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/lipas...s-in-dogs.html

Lipase is a water soluble digestive enzyme which plays an extremely crucial role in the process of fat absorption, transportation and digestion. It is essential for breaking down various types of fats that are included in the dog food.

High Levels
Similar to low lipase levels, elevated lipase level is also one of the major health problems for dogs. High levels of lipase could be an indication of one of the many dog health problems. The most common health problems are the gastrointestinal diseases like gastritis, bowel obstruction, peritonitis, visceral manipulation, neoplasia, hepatic diseases, etc. Several types of medications and acute pancreatitis in dogs are also some of the reasons that might elevate the lipase levels. When a dog is suffering with high lipase levels, he might show some signs and symptoms like vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, kidney diseases (and failure in worst cases), nausea, loss of appetite, lethargy, abdominal pain, etc. When a dog owner finds a set or one of the aforementioned symptoms in the dogs; he/she should take the dog to a professional veterinarian for proper diagnosis.

The path of treatment for the disturbed lipase levels in dog, is determined on the basis of its signs and symptoms and the amount of fluctuations that are observed in the lipase enzymes. Some of the common treatments for such conditions in dogs include, lipase supplements, cage rest, fluid therapy, antibacterial medications, vitamin supplements and significant dietary changes.

Link to "Is It Pancreatitis?"

In addition, many nonpancreatic conditions are associated with a marked increase in serum lipase activity . . . For example, patients with conditions such as renal failure, golerulosclerosis, glomerulonephritis, hepatic necorsis, hepatic fatty degeneration, hepatocellular carcinoma, bile duct carcinoma, lymphosarcoma, hemangiosarcoma of the heart, adenocarcinomas of the small intestine, sepsis, and amyloidosis of multiple organs have all been described as having an increased serum lipase activity.

Unfortunately, it seems the list of potential causes for his abnormal bloodwork is pretty long. His symptoms sure sound like they could be related to the Lipase level and whatever might be causing it to be elevated.

But I generally don't worry much about very minor elevations in the bloodwork, so that's why I was wondering whether his Lipase elevation is large (I'm assuming it's high, not low).

Natalie

[Linda1]

Re: My Dog Pip

Sending good thoughts that this can be figured out to get Pip feeling better.

[momofdecker]

Re: My Dog Pip

Don't have any ideas to offer but sending along some prayers and positive thoughts.

[jjefferjo]

Re: My Dog Pip

Pam
I believe the ursodial as well as the food change helped ED
He was on the med twice a day for 30 days and now once a day for thirty we will reevaluate then.
He has had no problems with the med and BG is normal for Ed
Stools all normal etc. he runs for his feeds
I hope you get the answers for PIP - I did not realize how thin ED had gotten until he started to get his weight back, will probably never get the muscle back but at least he is acting like his old self
Prayers for your boy

[pgcor]

Re: My Dog Pip

Thank you Louise and Jesse Girl - I'm going to mention the Fortakor to the Vet. Pip ate nothing last night and nothing this morning. I checked his blood last night before we went to bed and it was 246. This morning after poking him numerous times - no blood. So we only gave him 4 units. I have to go to work and didn't have time to try venous blood. My husband is retired so he takes Pip everywhere to make sure he's okay, even out in the yard.

Thank you for responding too Natalie. These are the reference ranges and Pip’s results for all abnormal readings. His BUN levels increased to 66 since this test was taken on 4/8. The first numbers are Pip's results/

52 6-31 BUN
216 5-131 ALK PHOS
391 92-324 CHOLESTEROL
47 4-27 BUN/Creatinine Ratio
840 77-695 Lipase
438 29-291 Triglyceride
407 170-400 Platelet Count
14 2-10 Eosinophils
438 29-291 Triglycerides
Both the Specialist and our regular Vet ruled out pancreatitis based on the ultrasound.

I have this sinking feeling that no one really knows what's wrong with Pip based on the tests they've run to date.

I hope all of you know how much I appreciate the positive thoughts and prayers - they are God sent! I love you all for helping and thinking of us.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: My Dog Pip

Pam,

I can't lend much input, but other than by sending prayers. I would suspect that something is going on, if he is not hungry, and perhaps gut related. Do you have him on any enzymes?

Just some thoughts.

Barb

[pgcor]

Re: My Dog Pip

Hi Barb - yes, when he eats, I add probiotics to his food. They are in powdered form. I bought some capsules to put the probiotics and other loose meds in, but it's been difficult to get any pills in him as he won't even eat cheese now. That was always his favorite.

[pgcor]

Re: My Dog Pip

The vet just called and Pip does not appear to have Cushings, which I would have been surprised if he did. But I'm in the process of trying to read up on cyclosporin as a treatment for pancreatitis. The Vet is going to try this, but I need to do some reading.

It's non-steroidal, but it's an immunosuppressant drug

[eyelostit]

Re: My Dog Pip

I spoke to my Vet about this...but wanted to see what you thought. There seems to be an average of 51% difference between my meter and the alpha track the Vet uses. I know there's a difference between meters, but the number differences seem excessive to me. Just curious what you think. I was using the Abbott FreeStyle Lite and they were using Abbott's Alpha Track. BTW, my meter works with a lot less blood that the Alpha Track.

Vet/Pam
221/112
262/122
172/94
114/59
137/78
145/87

Hi Pam,
You are right the numbers do not compute, years ago I did a post with Niki using 3 different meters compared to the Alpha Trak, the numbers were not that far off. I'll try & find that post, may take me awhile.

Dolly & Angel Niki

[eyelostit]

Re: My Dog Pip

I finally found this site re: bloodwork,

http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/caninebloodwork.htm

This compared Walmarts Relion Meter to Alpha Trak at Vets this is from old post of mine #312

187 bg at vet they used Alphatrac meter
160 Walmart's Relion meter using whole blood
137 Relion meter using blood from tail

this was before I used the Alpha Trac, you can see the difference is 27-30pts compared.

I cannot find my post comparing 3 different meters, could be in the archives

[eyelostit]

Re: My Dog Pip

Pam,

I think you mentioned in one of your posts, Pip was having trouble with his hips or hind legs, if he's having some pain that could be why his bg is high & why he is not eating. I know you are seeing the vet right now & maybe they have answers, not always as you and I know.

I'm just wondering tho, in the meantime do you have pain med's for Pip?

Dolly & Angel Niki

[k9diabetes]

Re: My Dog Pip

I just went back through Chris' lab results after he was given a furosamide (Lasix) injection that sent his kidney values out of whack.

His BUN went up as high as 70.
Reference Ranges are 6-27 for BUN and 0.4-1.8 for CREAT

04.02.07 - BUN 59, CREAT 2.1 (after injection of Lasix)
04.04.07 - BUN 44, CREAT 2.0
05.31.07 - BUN 55, CREAT 2.0
06.15.07 - BUN 70, CREAT 2.8
12.04.07 - BUN 34, CREAT 1.7
07.17.08 - BUN 57, CREAT 3.1

That last test was just two weeks before he passed away.

His urine specific gravity remained decent so the vets didn't feel there was any significant kidney impairment despite the high enzyme levels.

Lasix helped him with some coughing - perhaps just his really bad case of old dog lung disease - apparently by drying out his airways. So we gave him a little rarely because we knew it drove his kidney numbers up.

Unfortunately, Chris isn't the only dog I have seen go through a whole host of diagnostic tests that were unable to uncover the cause of a problem that was obviously there given his behavior. There was little doubt in either the GP vet's or the IMS oncologist's mind that the lesions found in his lungs a couple of weeks before he passed were secondary to a primary cancer somewhere else. He had been so frail. And his problems eating started a long time before that.

If again faced with that situation, I would do all of the noninvasive tests we did again - the only chance of identifying and perhaps treating a problem is to try to diagnose it. But I know from our experience and from the experience of other dogs that sometimes the cause can't be found.

I am NOT saying that Pip has cancer. Just that no matter how much you try, sometimes an answer is not forthcoming. It is inherent to the limits of noninvasive diagnostic procedures.

Since his blood sugar is completely out of whack already, it wouldn't hurt to try a very gentle but bland diet. If you can keep the calories the same as his usual meals and he will eat it, you would have a shot at decently keeping his blood sugar in line. Chris spent a long time eating boiled chicken, white rice, and lowfat cottage cheese for example. He didn't like meat baby food, but a lot of dogs do and that's another good bland option for a protein source. jack would slurp it up happily.

Just as a final example, our cat Katie is almost 17 and her bowel is just as dysfunctional as her brother Gus' was. The only food she will agree to eat and that doesn't cause her bowel to blow up is meat baby food.

The baby food probably is not doing her kidney function much good - it is in a slow chronic fail. But it's pointless to even talk about prescription diets or even commercial canned food. Most she won't eat and the rest screws up her digestion. So she gets her baby food every day and when her kidneys give out we will have to let her go. But in the meantime, she's pretty happy. She likes her baby food a lot, slurps up every last drop we give her, and seems generally happy, which is the important thing in the end.

I wouldn't hesitate to change up Pip's diet completely even if it's not "kosher" with his diabetes.

You can be conservative with the insulin and should be able to give a bit of insulin, up to one quarter of his dose, if he doesn't eat anything at all. You can prop up his blood sugar with syrup if need be.

For that matter, maybe he's got IBD or inflammation and would ultimately benefit from a steroid. I wouldn't hesitate to give that either if it helps him. In most of these things, ultimately the diabetes is secondary and can be managed well enough.

Do you have the full ultrasound report?

There should be a written one. I'd be interested in what it says.

Natalie

[pgcor]

Re: My Dog Pip

Hi Dolly & Natalie - My husband was at the Vet again yesterday and it appears as though our meters are 50% off in most cases. So we are adding that to the numbers we get.

Pip is getting Cerenia pills now, so we're hoping his nausea can be kept at bay.

Thank you for all the information Natalie. I do understand what you're telling me. The Vet basically said what you're saying. Not much can be done without invasive testing, and he MUST eat - diabetes is secondary.

My computer is down at home, so let me get the ultrasound and I'll try to post it tomorrow or at least the highlights.

Thank you everyone!!!

[buddingartist]

Re: My Dog Pip

Hi Pam

When Angus was vomiting almost every hour 2 weeks ago, the vet was concerned about dehydration and the weekend coming up and he gave him an injection of cerenia and it was really effective. Hope it works as well on Pip

Take care
Louise

[Rubytuesday]

Re: My Dog Pip

Hi Pam, I wanted to see how you and Pip were doing?

I am having problems with Ruby and have had a hard time keeping up or hanging onto the difficult/confusing threads, but I had seen the activity and concern on Pip's thread and kept meaning to come back and wish you well.

I just want to throw it out there...I wonder if something as benign as Slippery Elm would help. Ruby has been on it for awhile and it has helped with vomiting. Depending on the cause of Pip's discomfort it might help with nausea and innapetance. If Ruby is on antibiotics I let 2 hrs. go in-between the Slippery Elm and the pill.

Here is the link I use:

http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html

sending you strength, Tara