VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

[YukiesMom]

Hi Everyone,

I contacted Merck this morning and opened a case # because Yukon seems to be getting higher Blood Glucose #'s 3/4 through a bottle of Vetsulin. Once I open the new bottle the numbers go back down.

I am a little concerned because the person that answered the phone and took my information and gave me a case # advised to me that the insulin initially needed to be shaken vigorously and once the bubbles subside I am supposed to use it. All other injections after that the bottle should always be shaken, not rolled.

I specifically asked her several times if that was right and I told her that Yukon has been to two ER Vets and two other Vets and they all told me to roll the insulin, not shake.

She said shaking is correct - has anyone heard of this?

[jesse girl]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

Yes thats what vetsulin requires for their insulin . Why i dont know . They did have a problem with there insulin 9 years ago and was removed off the market . Maybe this is how they handled that and get it back on the shelves . Its not unusual to see a new bottle of insulin not work as well as the older vial for jesse

her recent bottle has seen some higher fastings but usually she will settle into the new vial over time

[Raysaint]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

And insulin does slowly lose effectiveness, so as the vial goes down, it may not be as effective and sugar can be a bit higher.

I give my Humulin N vials 6 weeks, then toss it.

http://www.caninsulin.ca/faq-answers-p.asp

The link is the Canadian version {same insulin), the FAQ gives info on prepping, says to invert the vial a few times.

http://www.caninsulin.ca/documents/C...-annotated.pdf

The client sheet above says to shake gently, turning the vial up and down, not shaking like a martini.

[bichons9]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

Hi Everyone,

I contacted Merck this morning and opened a case # because Yukon seems to be getting higher Blood Glucose #'s 3/4 through a bottle of Vetsulin. Once I open the new bottle the numbers go back down.

I am a little concerned because the person that answered the phone and took my information and gave me a case # advised to me that the insulin initially needed to be shaken vigorously and once the bubbles subside I am supposed to use it. All other injections after that the bottle should always be shaken, not rolled.

I specifically asked her several times if that was right and I told her that Yukon has been to two ER Vets and two other Vets and they all told me to roll the insulin, not shake.



She said shaking is correct - has anyone heard of this?

I am the worst on VETSULIN and have merck (vetsulin reps) on phone once a month.. changing variables to get reliable/anticipated results..they have no answers and claim instability was never a problem. I have asked them .."Why of all the insulin suspensions, does VETSULIN need to be shaken.?" WE wondered that if you shake it (example) 30 times for a few times..and then shake it 20 times a few times..do you end up with inaccurate parts of the crystalline vs amorphous portions...We weigh food, check needle gauge, syringe accuracy that can be 1/2 unit off, switched to U-100 conversion due to very small dog, changed feedings to 10-15-20 BEFORE injections to slow the drastic BG plunge, We now shake..settle 10 minutes and roll 10 times. We though the feeding strategy was working but over past 3 days Suzie may have gotten into a bag of closeted cat food, and ate 2 Oravet chews over 2 days that spiked her BG >500 soooo...we'll have to see..may go back to lantus. No sleep for me but it was quite predictable!!! I do not trust Vetsulin..but DVM's offer no advice..I want an FDA approved "human" insulin..Good Luck!!!
SS:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=811447094

[YukiesMom]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

I am so glad to hear that someone else is getting ahold of the company and asking questions. I have been shaking the vials now every time and his BG is still all over the charts.

3/16 8:20 a.m. 508!
5:30 p.m. 192

3/17 3:15 p.m. 302

3/22 8:30 a.m. 474
4:30 p.m. 229

3/24 3:30 p.m. 269
9:05 p.m. 442 NEW VIAL OPENED

3/25 7:00 a.m. 527!

His is now starting to lose his eyesight and I can't even get him stabilized on the Vetsulin.

My vet won't switch him and I haven't been able to find a different vet that knows what they are doing.

It is so frustrating - and he is such a trooper - I feel like I am letting him down :-(

[Raysaint]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

With his numbers being that high, might he just need a dose increase. That would probably be the natural protocol, and see if numbers start to improve.

[YukiesMom]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

I am just starting to question Vetsulin so much. I am reading so much about this shaking and rolling and a lot of people are saying the same thing about the Merck folks - they seem to not be consistent in anything I am being told.

I keep hearing that Lantus is a good insulin.

Any comments? Maybe I should switch him to a human insulin and see if that makes a difference.

[jesse girl]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

NPH has been the go to human insulin for dogs . It has been adequate for my jesse in her 9 years of diabetic . Is it perfect? far from it but it gets the job done . Lantus is not used very much so there isnt a track record to go by . Jesse used it for 3 days and i decided to change direction and go back to NPH so i cant really give an opinion on it . I think there is 4 human insulin's that dogs do use and we must remember they are human . I dont think any insulin on the market for dogs is prefect and most times we have to figure out how to get the best out of them to work with our dogs . I did big changes to jesses routine to get it to work good enough for her.

If you feel you are not adequately regulating your dog a change maybe helpful especially if you see no progress

Most times i feel insulin problems come from dosing problems and the food equation which can be very difficult to figure out and control and sometimes a change can give a reset to a routine

[Raysaint]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

If you want to get deep into insulin formulations, this article might help.

https://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp...ploads/176.pdf

Vetsulin and human insulin are close in structure. Vetsulin is still made from pig pancreas, human insulins are genetically engineered to mirror our natural insulin.

The whole shaking versus rolling thing, the link I posted from Caninsulin says to turn the bottle upside down and back a few times, kind of a slow shake.
The article above explains why. The crystals in the insulin settle to the bottom and need to get back to being suspended in the vial. So turning the bottle upside down a few times accomplishes that.

[bichons9]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

I am just starting to question Vetsulin so much. I am reading so much about this shaking and rolling and a lot of people are saying the same thing about the Merck folks - they seem to not be consistent in anything I am being told.

I keep hearing that Lantus is a good insulin.

Any comments? Maybe I should switch him to a human insulin and see if that makes a difference.

See the feeding strategy for past 3 days..It's a better BG but still makes no sense...still considering switching to a human insulin..Lantus or Novolin 70/30...

[YukiesMom]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

Well I am going to talk with my vet this week. The last few days Yukon's BG has been crazy high.

3-28 451 8:10 pm
3-29 340 6:25 am
3-30 626 8:00 am
446 4:20 pm
3-31 516 2:15 pm

I did raise his Vetsulin to 12.5 from 12.0 units because his blood readings have still been relatively high (300's). I am going to knock it back down to 12.0 units.

He gained 1 pound the last week too. Not sure if that's the atypical cushings acting up.

I did start him on Ocu-Glo about 4 days ago too. But I read the ingredients and it doesn't look like there is any sugar in it. They tested it in diabetic dogs so.....

I just don't understand these large swings. I wonder if I should start gradually knocking him down from 12.0 units.

[jesse girl]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

I think the cushing may make regulation challenging as you cant be sure how the disease, medication and diabetes interacts

The gaining weight shows the body is processing the food which is a good thing

[YukiesMom]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

I'm not sure - my vet told me to increase the dosage from 12 units to 13 units.

I called the company that makes Ocu Glo because I noticed the numbers also increased since I started giving him that supplement. The person told me that the dogs BG usually decreases when taking the Ocu Glo.

I wish I could put him back on the Melatonin. It just seems like everything I try just de-regulates what little I have regulated.

[jesse girl]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

Yeah it can be frustrating took me about a year to find something we could do day in day out . Just have to experiment with dosing maybe food its funny how something will eventually fall in your lap if you keep trying

[bichons9]

Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

Raysaint, Jesse girl.. and other members..based on your long time experience, Why don't members attach a spreadsheet to the posts? IMO..tracking others' results would be quite helpful ..Is it none of our business? Is it too time consuming? Do most consider the results of others' not helpful? Every FDMB member attaches their s.s...If it were not for this, Elliott (my cat) would not have gone into remission. Their s.s.'s shed so much light on what I should/could be doing to help Elliott.