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  #171  
Old 12-08-2017, 01:35 PM
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Isabelle Isabelle is offline
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Default Re: Giving treats and testing their effect

Izzy gets U.S made dried chicken that I get at our local boutique dog store. She also loves red pepper and pea pods but only gets a bit. She used to get carrot but it made her sugar go through the roof.
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Izzy's Mom - 11 years old, 24 pounds, diabetic since May, 2016, 12 units Humulin N every 12 hours; 1/2 cup Blue prescription k/s three times a day and a regular grain free greenie after dinner
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  #172  
Old 12-08-2017, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Giving treats and testing their effect

My Gus gets frozen green beans once in awhile, or a dollop of frozen pure canned pumpkin. I have also found that the mini milkbones do not raise his BG much if he gets 1 or 2, but 3 will raise. He loves the greenbeans as much as the milkbone. For him, it's not what it is, but the fact that he gets a "treat". He'd be happy if he just got one of his w/d kibbles even as tiny as they are. It's the act and how I present it to him that makes him think it's a treat. Sometimes I think the treats are more for us humans than for the pet. LOL
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Gus - **Angel as of March 7, 2018"
10.5 yr mini-schnauzer, diagnosed Sept. 2015, currently 17.5 units Novolin N 2x day; diet W/D, tblsp pumpkin, Advocate PetTester tester/strips & Alpha-Trak2 for alternative (when I question weird BG readings); blind as of March 1, 2016
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  #173  
Old 12-08-2017, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Giving treats and testing their effect

Even stranger than the standard treats, Annie use to love ice cubes! She would come running if the heard the ice maker spitting out ice cubes.

The downside to her ice cubes is that she would try to hide / bury them under the sofa pillows! They were best given in the summer out in the yard.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9Ĺ years.
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  #174  
Old 12-10-2017, 04:24 AM
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Scooterspal Scooterspal is offline
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Default Vetsulin vs NPH

Is Vetsulin still a mix of 70% intermediate and 30% short acting insulin?

If so, is that really the best formula to start a recently diagnosed dog on?

To me, it seems you are giving up the control to the drug as opposed to using NPH and combining the N and R formulations based on BC levels, diet, activity, etc.

Regulation would be much more complicated, if next to impossible especially early on.

Comments?
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Diagnosed 9/15/17. A 17 lb. terrier mutt, 15 years old. My bestest friend. Novolin N 6U, Novolin R 3U, 2X/day. Cesar Classics 3.5 oz. packets w/ 4 tbsps of old fashion Quaker Oats, 2x day. Probiotic every 3 or 4 days. Omega 3, two 300 mg. capsules 1X/day for skin. Occuguard Plus, Billberry, Lutein, Vit E, Vit C every meal for eyes.

Last edited by Scooterspal; 12-10-2017 at 04:29 AM.
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  #175  
Old 12-10-2017, 06:32 AM
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Default Re: Vetsulin vs NPH

If Vetsulin is that mixture (I'm not familiar with Vetsulin), then it's like Lente, which humans, and I, have used.
I believe with any insulin, you can adjust the dose to probably get good regulation, and that's probably best because then the dose is consistent.

If you're basing a daily dose on fasting, diet, activity, etc., then you'll be giving a different dose every day and we know that's not usually best for a dog.

Using an R and an NPH is a strategy for tight control, and that's not what we usually strive for with dogs; we strive for a consistent range. That will give them good long term success, as they don't have the same level of complications as humans.
Tight control will usually put you at higher chance of hypoglycemia, which isn't best for a dog. We humans can sense hypo, and react.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #176  
Old 12-10-2017, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Vetsulin vs NPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooterspal View Post
Is Vetsulin still a mix of 70% intermediate and 30% short acting insulin?
Iíve read that Vetsulin has a component of intermediate and fast acting, but havenít seen any percentages listed. I donít THINK itís as much as 30% fast acting.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9Ĺ years.
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  #177  
Old 12-11-2017, 03:19 AM
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Scooterspal Scooterspal is offline
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Default Re: Vetsulin vs NPH

The original version was a 70/30 with 30% short acting. They have "updated" the product since around 2013.

It is now 65/35 with 35% short acting.

https://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/20...-approved.html

I only bring this up because, from my reading here, it appears some of those who are using it seem to have more trouble with regulation than others, like me, who use the generic NPH.

Agreed, all dogs are different. What works for one may not work for another.

Just offering up this information for further consideration.
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Diagnosed 9/15/17. A 17 lb. terrier mutt, 15 years old. My bestest friend. Novolin N 6U, Novolin R 3U, 2X/day. Cesar Classics 3.5 oz. packets w/ 4 tbsps of old fashion Quaker Oats, 2x day. Probiotic every 3 or 4 days. Omega 3, two 300 mg. capsules 1X/day for skin. Occuguard Plus, Billberry, Lutein, Vit E, Vit C every meal for eyes.

Last edited by Scooterspal; 12-11-2017 at 05:22 AM.
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  #178  
Old 12-11-2017, 03:34 AM
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Default Re: Vetsulin vs NPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raysaint View Post
...If you're basing a daily dose on fasting, diet, activity, etc., then you'll be giving a different dose every day and we know that's not usually best for a dog...
What I was meant was, in the case of a product like Vetsulin 65/35, it would seem you have LESS control over getting to consistent BC levels since adjusting dosage forces you to add or subtract both intermediate AND short acting.

To me, that makes no sense. By using separate NPH insulins I have been able, in two months, to get Scooter to consistent, repeatable BC levels. That's not to imply I play with the dosage each time. I do not. I will inject 2 units of R alone at 5:30am if his BC is over 400. This may happen once a week, now. Otherwise, the dose remains the same each time. If I had only Vetsulin, he would have to "simmer" at these highs until after feeding several hours later. No thanks!

NPH, in both the short acting R together with the intermediate acting N is a more effective strategy, in my opinion. My internist would seem to agree or he would not have suggested it.
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Diagnosed 9/15/17. A 17 lb. terrier mutt, 15 years old. My bestest friend. Novolin N 6U, Novolin R 3U, 2X/day. Cesar Classics 3.5 oz. packets w/ 4 tbsps of old fashion Quaker Oats, 2x day. Probiotic every 3 or 4 days. Omega 3, two 300 mg. capsules 1X/day for skin. Occuguard Plus, Billberry, Lutein, Vit E, Vit C every meal for eyes.

Last edited by Scooterspal; 12-11-2017 at 05:28 AM.
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  #179  
Old 12-11-2017, 05:27 AM
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Default Re: Vetsulin vs NPH

I think many factors go into choosing what is best. For some people, who donít have access to their dogs because of work hours or who donít have a vet who is willing to go outside the box, the safer option is to have a dog in a higher range some of the time with consistent numbers. There are also dogs that are so sensitive to insulin - my dog was one - and I could easily overdose her if I had miscalculated even a small amount. For her, varying doses based on her blood sugar was a dangerous thing and caused much of a roller coaster effect. I had R that I might use during an infection but even with that, I had to use an almost unmeasurable tiny amount. I think the lesson with anyone is to know the tendencies of the individual dog. For some, it becomes a major focus of their life and others just donít have the time to devote with schedules.

My dog was never on vetsulin. Shortly after her diagnosis, it was pulled from the market and all dogs had were NPH. Some dogs did not do as well but most adjusted fine. My vet stopped prescribing vetsulin and still doesnít to this day without exhausting every option first. But, many vets are back on board with it.

This is why home testing is critical but I do think most can make it work. We have had many dogs who did very well and lived a normal life span without stellar regulation.
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  #180  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:51 AM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Vetsulin vs NPH

i like the flexibility of having the insulin's separate

we do make adjustments for jesse in the dose and thats her reality we beat our head against the wall with the typical 12/12 routine but it wasn't going to work

now jesse can go long periods without the need of a short or fast acting insulin so thats why you do have to test everyday to make sure there is not a change in how the body process insulin
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Jesse-26 lbs - 15.5 years old - 10 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 8 and 10 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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