Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

[Bagel's Mom]

WOW am glad to find you guys...


Bagel just finished 4 weeks of Lysodren maintenance and had her stim test SAT...

Got the results and of course I left them at school today becasue it was a rush to get out..

Anyway Doc says they are a little high..maybe 7 or 8 I just can't remember today- and to increase the weekly dose by 1/4 of a 500 mg pill..meaning 2 500 mg pills each Thursday.. (40 pound beagle basset)

She seems to be doing well..Had one diarreah accident last Thursday
( dosing day and I give her 1 500 mg in the Am) but he says that wasn't from the pill ????

Anyway..water consumption picked up Fri and Sat but seems to be back down maybe today...
Do NOT want to LOAD again so am hoping the 1/4 more will help.
Now she is fussing to go out and that is always good so we will talk to you soon... Sande

[mytil]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Hi Sande,

I sure am glad you found your way here too.

Just an FYI - Many actually split the maintenance dose over several days - for example, meaning in your case 500mgs on Tues and 500mgs on Thurs.

I am wondering outloud why your vet wanted to go to maintenance when the post ACTH stim number was a bit high. There are some doggies that do okay with the numbers slightly above 5 and this could be the case with Bagel. You may want to ask your vet for further explanation.

The diarrhea episode could be attributed to an upset tummy maybe from the Lysodren. Did it settle pretty well with her during the loading period?

Continue to keep us posted on your sweetie pie
Terry

[Sabre's Mum]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Hi Sande

Glad we BOTH found canine cushings here.

I really can't remember all of Bagel's details ... eg weight. What does this now work out mg/kg?

I know your vet really only wants to dose once a week BUT one of the reasons for splitting into doses over the week is to keep on top of the adrenals regenerating. See how you go but you may want to TRY and convince your vet the Dr Feldman suggests this is the best way to go.

I recall that your post ACTH after loading was either just below 5 or just above 5 ... Sometimes you are able to reduce the post cortisol number by increasing the maintenance but I'm sorry to say you may be in for a reload ... here's hoping that won't be the case.

Just keep a tabs on the diarrhea ... whether it happens just on Lysodren days. This may also be a good case for splitting the dose.

Take care
Angela

[Squirt's Mom]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Hi Sande,

How is Bagel today? Something you might discuss with your vet is giving him a Pepcid AC when he has the Lyso if that seems to be what is upsetting his tummy. But talk to the doc first and if you get the OK then be sure you get the AC not the Complete or any of the other varieties. The generic is called Famodidine (sp) and wally world has their own brand as do several stores, but again not the extended, etc.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Hey Guys,.,
Finally realized these posts go backwards from the ones at the old site...

OK let's see...

Bagel loaded in 6 days altho the vet thinks I may have ended it too soon...
Her pre was 4.2 and post 5.9 then....

She weighs 40 so her weekly maintenance has been 1 and 3/4 pills on Thursdays. Took forever to get him to let me do it in two doses on Thursdays....

She had no diarreah during loading nor the other three weeks..Just once BAD episode when I got home last Thursday after having 500 mg that morning. I gave her pepto bismol and then her 3/4 that evening as the vet instructed ..She was fine..

She sure has more energy....but today she was peeing every second so I caught a tiny specimen and took it and sure enough another UTI. ( she had two bad ones last August before being diagnosed with Cushings...)
anywayyyyyyy I am now the proud owner of 14 days worth of meds for that as well..

Her 1 month maintenance stim was SAT and he said a little high at 8.9
So that's when he increased her Thursday dose by 1/4 which makes it a total of 1000 mg that day. He said no tests for 3 months unless she goes back to the water and food like before and we might have to load again..I said NO that was to hard on ME!!
If she has any probs tomorrow with one pill in the Am and one in the PM I may just do the Tues and Thurs on my own next week...I tried asking about it before and he said he had never heard of that...and he IS tops in the area and beyond, and I know they get so many "internet" diagnosing from patients' parents...so I may just have to do it on my own....

I give her a regular pepcid every day since she wants to eat grass so much.
Doc said 10 mg of Famotidine per day. I HAD used the AC but it was 20 mg and he said that was a people dose not a dog dose..So I cut back to the 10 mg and she seems pretty good about not eating grass in the afternoons.
I also give her SAM-e daily...
WOW...and try to work fulltime with 10 year olds..
SO I am very tired today and since tomrorow Am is dosing day I will sign off..
I Do so appreciate all the help and advice here and at least YOU don't think all the money we spend on these babies is foolish!! Thanks for all..
Sande

[Sabre's Mum]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Hi Sande

Mmmmmm ....

Ok, this is my opinion and others may chime in ....

I believe with the post of 8.9 you are going to do very little with bringing those numbers down. Your vet has changed the dose from 48mg/kg to 55mg/kg. Generally you should retest a month after a dosing change, others may want to comment on this ... maybe your vet is wanting to get an erosion effect and believes that it will take a number of months ... not one month to see this. Sorry to say but IMHO, I believe you are in for a reload.

I know you already do ... but keep an eye on Bagel's eating and water intake and take her in earlier for an ACTH. I have done this a couple of times when our vet has kept Sabre's dose the same and I believed it should have been increased.

Oh yes ... what we do for our beloved pets ... just spent $360 there today and looks like surgery on the cards to remove a lump next week ... OUCH!

Take care
Angela and Sabre

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

thanks Angela.....

I can't remember exactly what he said when he called me- I was not in a quiet place And I was trying to write fast... but I think he was saying the high number was still ok and that it wasn't bad unless it got near 25????
Does that make sense?? maybe I didn;t hear that correctly...

I do know that at the end of the week- (last Friday) a day after dosing, I noticed her water intake was doubled- and then she was acting very hungry over the weekend. It was a busy weekend and my son was home- and she seemed to be begging for everything we ate moreso than usual but I also attributed it to his eating all the time too!

Just gave to 500 mg pill, the UTI amoxi pill, the pepsid, and now my turn to get ready for work! I mixed turkey babyfood, green beans and rice and she really likes that- hopefully it will make it easier on her tummy today!
Sande

[Squirt's Mom]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Hi Sande,

Could you please verify those numbers for us on the ACTH and what your vet said was getting high enough to be "bad"?

Hope you have a great day!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Hey Leslie,

Her pre (after 4 weeks maintenance) was 7 her post was 8.8

he said between 1 and 5 was perfect

I swear I thought he said it wasn't really bad til 25?

Could I be nuts?

[Squirt's Mom]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Could I be nuts?

Yeah, but you're in good company!

[stardeb55]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

I'm afraid I have to agree with Angela on where you stand with Bagel. A post number of close to 9 is not going to come down much at all with a simple increase in the maintenance dose. I speak from experience with Harley as I have had to reload him 3x since his diagnosis a year ago. One of his stims prior to a reload showed a post of between 9-10, if memory serves, I had an IMS who insisted that this was ok as long as he was symptom free. Within a week or less, Harley started peeing all over the house, drinking tons of water, etc. I made several phone calls to the IMS over a period of 3 weeks insisting that something was wrong, & he needed to be seen. After 3 weeks, when they finally agreed that I needed to bring him in, his ACTH showed a post of >20. I, immediately, opted to reload at a higher dose.

It sounds like Bagel is already becoming symptomatic, so I am afraid you have a reload in your immediate future.

Debbie

[frijole]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Hey Leslie,

Her pre (after 4 weeks maintenance) was 7 her post was 8.8

he said between 1 and 5 was perfect

I swear I thought he said it wasn't really bad til 25?

Could I be nuts?

Hi! A possibility is that they were confused and not you! A normal dog's cortisol isn't considered high until 22. Once dx-ed with cushings the whole scale changes. That is because the levels have to be reduced and maintained at those levels (due to overproduction). Thats where the 1 to 5 level comes in. So probably they were thinking of normal level and not a cush dog's level.

My dog's levels went to 13 or so after a few weeks on maintenance and I remember the disappointment. Some dogs just take higher doses and longer to fully load and maintain. Its OK - you just do another load (same routine) and retest. We ended up increasing the dosage in order to accomplish that and to maintain it.

What is your vet suggesting?

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

AT this point, he said increase the Lyso by 1/4 pill..
Which I did yesterday. No adverse effects at all this time and she even was playing with a toy which she hasn't done in many months.

I am wondering....The STIM test was Saturday and Weds she was dragging herself on the floor(wasn't the glands) and trying to pee on every blade of grass, so I took a small specimen in ...and she had a UTI.
I read that the Cort. levels can be high due to several things, one being a bacterial infection. So I am wondering if THAT could have made her test results high?

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

OH..Yes he DID say to monitor her behaviors ( food and water intake) for a possible reload...

I HATE that since they wanted to do 8 days of loading and I KNOW she loaded at 6...
and they let me stop...but even her loading dose was high- (pre 4.2 and post 5.9)

oh well...we DO learn a LOT huh?
I am working on diet now...
I am feeding her canned chicken/rice/green beans and a sprinkle of holistic kibble...seems to agree well...
of to the showers. thanks everyone!!

[Lulusmom]

Re: Bagel - Beagle/Bassett - Lysodren

Hi Sande,

What dose did you load with? I know you posted that information on cc.net but too bad I don't have a photographic memory.

Finding the right maintenance dose isn't always easy and hindsight is 20/20 and makes you go DOH! I believe part of the problem may be the once a week maintenance dosing. You are giving Bagel a huge dose in one day and that makes absolutely no sense to me. My dog's IM says no less than twice a week maintenance. We have split both Lulu's and Jojo's maintenance into thirds and dose on Mon, Wed & Fri.

I have an audio of a lecture given by Dr. Edward Feldman and he stresses to his students to never give once a week maintenance dose but rather split it up into as many days as you can. For instance, he would probably have you give Bagel 1/2 pill on Mon, Tue, Thur & Fri. It's rather odd that you had to beg your vet to split Bagel's maintenance dose. Has he had much experience in treating cushdogs?

Glynda