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  • Update on Athena

    https://www.k9cushings.com/forum/sho...ol-now-too-low
    If you will please read where it says long overdue update that will pretty much bring everybody up-to-date



    Just posting the link first post when we were in the Cushing’s forum Athena was originally diagnosed with Cushing’s a few years ago and just this past Saturday was diagnosed with diabetes for anyone that wants any background it’s a pretty long post but you could just read my last entry to catch up on everything I would appreciate anyone’s input on doing the curve which we have to complete this soon. There seems to be a wide variety of thoughts on exactly when the curve should be done she will have only been on her insulin one week this coming Saturday it is my understanding that you should wait at least two weeks before doing this curve test

    We would be grateful for any ones input on everything I apologize for not writing more and it’s been a tough couple of months between losing our oldest dog in December and just a few weeks later Athena is diagnosed with yet something else as serious as diabetes

    Thank you to all we love our dogs and we would move the stars and the moon to do anything for them it is just been really tough

  • #2
    Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

    Hi and welcome to the forum to you and Athena.

    To answer you question about the frequency of doing a 12 hour curve, it normally takes a week for a dog’s body to adjust to insulin increases. The goal is to slowly increase insulin, based on the results of the curve, until a dog’s Blood Glucose is in the 150 - 250 range for most of the day.

    Let us know a few basics about Athena... weight, type and dose of insulin, food and if you plan on home testing..

    http://www.k9diabetes.com/ Is a good place to start on learning how to manage Athena’s diabetes.
    Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
    Diabetes: Aug 2013
    Went peacefully to heaven on 04-24-2021
    Video in Lily’s memory: https://www.facebook.com/10000201631...3260300417807/

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

      Hi Mike. Thank you for responding
      We are doing all testing at home we received our Alpha track to meet her the other day and we have all our supplies here
      Athena has been placed on Humulin N 14 units. We feed her and dose her at 0630 and 1830 daily. Her first dose started on Saturday, January 5 in the evening
      It was on that Saturday morning that we found out she was diabetic with her number coming back at 534
      We have since texted her a few times at home and she has a range from anywhere to 445 to 665.
      We were trying to wait and give her a good week to 10 days of insulin before initiating the curve testing although we read some people wait two weeks. I’m going to call our vet today and verify again if they actually want it done in one week that would mean we would do it this coming Saturday
      Are dogs were already eating very good holistic dog food That we ordered by mail mostly because Athena has some food allergies but we just recently lost our oldest dog axle on December 15. He crossed over the bridge at the age of 12 he was an American bulldog /Pit And are only boy and our biggest baby he was a true Scooby Doo in his personality what prompted us to take Athena to the vet for a quick check up was because she had been basically despondent since we lost axle We were thinking maybe something was going on with her Cushing’s or that she was just so upset at the loss of her body but then something just kept bothering me I got a feeling that something else wasn’t right with her
      Sure enough that’s when we found out she was diabetic. My last entry into the canine Cushing’s form with my ongoing coaching through the details everything that we went through that Saturday
      She had lost 8 pounds by the time we took her to the vet from the time that we lost axle on December 15. She has a very large Labrador she’s not the smaller kind Both her parents and grandmother were large slabs as well she will never be one of the 60 or 70 pound lab more in the area of 80 to 90 pounds. Currently she weighs 114 And mind you wish she had already lost 8 pounds. Her weight has always been something we have battled nonstop we have closely monitored her food we have done everything under the sun and couldn’t get this poor girl to drop a pound but is soon as we lost axle she immediately lost 8 pounds and has steadily been losing weight. Part of that may also be that we have now gradually moved her to the WD diet that the vet prescribed her which she is adjusting to the very well when axle passed away Athena who would eat the kitchen sink if you gave it to her pretty much stopped eating with the exception of a few bites enoughto take her pain medication as she has joint problems and arthritis in her back legs which stemmed from having Lyme disease as a puppy and then Cushing’s and of course her weight didn’t help her
      The people that we got her from when she was a puppy failed to tell us about her medical issues we found out when we took her to the vet and of course their answer where we got her from was to bring her back we will put her down and you can have another puppy they had some nerve!!!! They were just unbelievably terrible people in our opinion all we wanted was to know her medical problems so we knew best how to help her and I failed to tell us so much but we later found out plenty either way she has always been a very happy dog and the level of our lives just like the others and we have done everything under the sun to try to get her healthy as possible but it has been one challenge after another
      Her weight coming off now while we had hoped it would be a different way is actually going to help her because we have not been able to get the weight off of her regardless of what we did
      She has been very good about eating the new food we are slowly introducing and the new treats that she has to have versus the other ones. She is no longer looking to eat everything in sight although she still drinks a lot of water

      She has been excellent and taking her insulin shots and having her sticks done to check her blood/numbers.

      We were concerned about switching her over to Hill’s the beauty but we read reviews and did all the research and it seems like people are happy with it but we have always been extremely cautious with dog food due that all the recalls and problems and we always fed them a holistic diet mostly because of her allergies. Our other two doggies which where axle and the baby which is Lucky had no problem eating what we fed Athena they did great with it Which worked out

      We are hoping she doesn’t have any reaction to this food but so far so good and she’s actually eating it well but again we are going very slow switching her over so as to not make her more sick

      Athena is a silver lab and of course we had no idea some of the issues that came along with that but either way she has been given the greatest life ever just like all of our dogs and we would move the moon and the stars to do anything for them any suggestions anyone has are completely welcomed

      We have a new vet now that we are very happy with But our previous to that was pretty much a losing battle and we believe it’s slowed Athena”s progress down And they almost nearly killed her when they tried to put her on Veteroyl the first time But we fought them on the dosage to start her with and thank God we did because had they done it their way she would’ve been dead thankfully we jumped ship from that vet and found a wonderful new vet and amazing staff to care for our dogs and they have been nothing short of wonderful with us

      We are all grieving the loss of our boy axle right now and we are having to focus on Athena and this whole new path in her life and giving her the best chance is possible for success and managing yet another condition that she has landed

      Thank you so much for your response we look forward to hearing from others

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

        Hi and welcome

        It is challenging managing both cushings and diabetes and its not that unusual to see a dog going diabetic after being cushing . Many have done adequately and got it to work .

        As mike sugested regulation isnt that complicated . At 14 units for a 114 pound dog is a bit light for a starting dose but i dont have a problem with that as my jesses dose ended up under a normal starting dose for a dog her size

        Slow and steady usually wins the race . Some dogs do need 2 weeks for a dose to settle but for most a week is the standard . A large dog like yours may see dose adjustments of one unit but could go as high as 2 units if the curve is quite high coupled with some health concerns
        Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
        Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

          Thanks Jesse the vet called yesterday and I actually wanted us to do the curb today so I’ve been up since early this morning and we are in the process of a 12 hour curve test but Athena’s numbers are all over the map with the lowest one being 499
          I hope this alpha track 2 is an accurate device we can’t even use the regular pen we just have to use the needle to stick her because that pen is pretty much useless
          Is it normal to still see high levels in the first week for taking insulin I know things are different between a dog and a human I am a nurse but I’m saying that it’s not the same as a person with diabetes

          I really hate taking her so many times in one day but she’s doing great with everything we did a pre-test and then I fed her and gave her her insulin and then have been on a two hour test mode ever since

          I hope that none of the medications that she currently takes is giving us crazy results as well


          Thank you for your help 🐾


          Originally posted by jesse girl View Post
          Hi and welcome

          It is challenging managing both cushings and diabetes and its not that unusual to see a dog going diabetic after being cushing . Many have done adequately and got it to work .

          As mike sugested regulation isnt that complicated . At 14 units for a 114 pound dog is a bit light for a starting dose but i dont have a problem with that as my jesses dose ended up under a normal starting dose for a dog her size

          Slow and steady usually wins the race . Some dogs do need 2 weeks for a dose to settle but for most a week is the standard . A large dog like yours may see dose adjustments of one unit but could go as high as 2 units if the curve is quite high coupled with some health concerns

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

            You are doing fine. It is normal to see higher numbers on the first curve. Like jesse girl said, 14 units is a very conservative starting dose for a 114 lb dog. The normal starting dose for a 114lb dog would be about 22 units twice daily, so you have a ways to go.

            Also remember that dogs are type 1 diabetics and their pancreas does not produce insulin. They are completely dependent on injected insulin.
            Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
            Diabetes: Aug 2013
            Went peacefully to heaven on 04-24-2021
            Video in Lily’s memory: https://www.facebook.com/10000201631...3260300417807/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

              Thanks Mike :-)
              We appreciate the encouragement
              We are very proud of how well she’s handling it all

              More updates to follow soon


              Originally posted by MikeMurphy View Post
              You are doing fine. It is normal to see higher numbers on the first curve. Like jesse girl said, 14 units is a very conservative starting dose for a 114 lb dog. The normal starting dose for a 114lb dog would be about 22 units twice daily, so you have a ways to go.

              Also remember that dogs are type 1 diabetics and their pancreas does not produce insulin. They are completely dependent on injected insulin.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

                dont get discouraged with the numbers as it can take months to get to a regulation that is right for your dog . As we say on the forum every dog is different and regulation is that way also . Dont use the human guide as what needs to be done . The chances you get blood sugar looking like normal sugar is quite rare. My jesse has regulation from 100 to 250 sometimes more sometimes less . Sometimes very good and sometimes not so good but dogs dont seem to have the problems from elevated sugar as humans do probably because there life span is so much shorter than ours
                Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
                Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

                  Thanks JG. We really appreciate all the support from you and Mike in our thread. Just want our girl to get better. We just lost our oldest out right before Christmas he crossed the rainbow bridge it was a 12-year-old American bulldog/Pit named Axle. So things of been tough and then this just hit us out of nowhere we thought she was just feeling awful from so much grief Because we have never seen a dog grieve the loss of another dog like we have Athena with the loss of our Axle and maybe having a Cushing’s crisis we did not see this coming
                  She constantly sleeps near where his urn is. We are just trying to help her as best we can we would move the moon and the stars for our dogs ♥️🐾



                  Originally posted by jesse girl View Post
                  dont get discouraged with the numbers as it can take months to get to a regulation that is right for your dog . As we say on the forum every dog is different and regulation is that way also . Dont use the human guide as what needs to be done . The chances you get blood sugar looking like normal sugar is quite rare. My jesse has regulation from 100 to 250 sometimes more sometimes less . Sometimes very good and sometimes not so good but dogs dont seem to have the problems from elevated sugar as humans do probably because there life span is so much shorter than ours

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

                    Take it from a human diabetic, don't try and manage the dog like us humans. I learned the hard way. Don't get focused on numbers.

                    It takes a while for a dog to slowly come down, little by little. Stay consistent. Follow the basic regimen. And don't try to correct high numbers off and on, it just prolongs regulation.

                    Slow and steady wins the race.
                    Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

                      Originally posted by Raysaint View Post
                      Take it from a human diabetic, don't try and manage the dog like us humans. I learned the hard way. Don't get focused on numbers.

                      It takes a while for a dog to slowly come down, little by little. Stay consistent. Follow the basic regimen. And don't try to correct high numbers off and on, it just prolongs regulation.

                      Slow and steady wins the race.
                      Hi Raysaint
                      Thank you so much yes I learned that very quickly the nurse in me just wanted to go that route but it didn’t take long for me to realize there’s a gigantic difference between diabetes in a dog and human
                      You have a fantastic vet and I faxed over the curb number as I did last night and of course she said she wasn’t surprised by the numbers that she expected to see that And pretty much reinforced what you said she said it’s more about stabilizing Athena and not to worry so much about with these numbers look like because in the beginning they may look pretty wonky for a while
                      And she did state that she did start I Thena on the lower end of an insulin dosage because she wants to do this gradually so today she increased Athena from 14 to 18
                      She would also like us to do a curve next week to see where we are going And she will just let us continue going with our plan and we will do another curve and say a month. They were very impressed with the way I made up a form and did her curve again that’s the nurse in me with my charts and everything :-)

                      Good news we got today is that happiness time I eat is fine or stimulating thyroid was a bit iffy I totally expected with her diabetes and she said that there is no need to place Athena on any thyroid medicine so we were very happy about that

                      She asked about how she has been the last week and I said we were happy To report that Evelena seems a lot happier she has some spunk back in her and the other day she actually ran after a stick that my hubby threw in the yard for her. She loves sticks
                      You should’ve seen us we sounded like a couple of cheerleaders in the yard saying “yay she’s running she’s running” She really hasn’t been doing that much lately and she went through such a terrible grief with losing our oldest boy Axle was her sidekick and best buddy

                      So we are not going to worry about numbers we are just going to concentrate on stabilizing her and helping her feel better. She’s doing fine with her gradual change in diet and she likes the new treats just fine

                      So today we are feeling very encouraged as we go forward and although we are all still so heartbroken over the loss of our boy we know where he is and one day we will see him again and we now have our girls to focus on. Our boy will always live in our hearts our sweet Scooby Doo of a dog that he was. I know it sounds crazy but we really truly do feel him around us all the time and that’s a great thing and we know that he gave us 12 wonderful years and we did our very best till the end for him and we did not want him to suffer and as much as it broke our hearts we had to sum up the courage to let him go with dignity and love And that’s exactly how it went

                      Thank you everyone for your encouragement and words of advice you have no idea how much it means to us

                      If anybody has any treat ideas that we can get it for Athena outside of the ones that you can get my prescription we would love to hear about them so that we can give her a little variety

                      Right now we have to separate kinds of food to different diets going and everything but we will work it out. Athena had to eat one way and a girl Lucky has to eat another way (She remains on the holistic diet we used to have Athena on as well And that our boy ate as well)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

                        As far as treats go, this is what I give to Lily. They don’t mess with her blood glucose levels at all.



                        Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
                        Diabetes: Aug 2013
                        Went peacefully to heaven on 04-24-2021
                        Video in Lily’s memory: https://www.facebook.com/10000201631...3260300417807/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

                          Originally posted by MikeMurphy View Post
                          As far as treats go, this is what I give to Lily. They don’t mess with her blood glucose levels at all.



                          Thanks so much Mike! Have a great weekend

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

                            Originally posted by Weloveathena View Post
                            Thanks so much Mike! Have a great weekend
                            Hi Mike
                            I had to pick up some medication at the vet today for Athena that she’s on for her joints and there was a lady in there that had a diabetic dog we started speaking about our dogs while I was waiting
                            Her dogs numbers or crazy like Athena but she’s not treating her dog with insulin and she won’t she said she is going to just continue to adjust her dogs diet and do it that way

                            Is that even safe with a dog? She said the vet wasn’t happy about it but couldn’t force her to make her dog take insulin. I hope that sweet dog does ok

                            Any thoughts

                            I’m going by what the vet says because I’m confident in her skills and knowledge but I just can’t stop thinking about that dog in the same condition that Athena is in

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Injection sites. Advice pls. Results of first Curve

                              The only place we are able to find good injection sites for Athena is around her neck area so we’re trying to go in a sort of circular motion so as to not keep injecting the same area does anyone here inject in any other areas she doesn’t have a lot of loose skin anywhere in her hindquarters or middle of her body probably not until we get some more of this weight off. Our vet said this is fine but I was just wondering if there are any other areas she is such a good girl with her injections

                              I also wanted to post the results of her first curve
                              Pre-meal/fast. 471
                              2 hour post meal 517
                              4 hour 499
                              6 hour 581
                              8 hour 556
                              10 hour 582
                              12 hour 616

                              Meal/evening dose 2 hour post 562

                              All done with Alpha Trak 2. Setting for dog double checked

                              Our vet didn’t seem too alarmed by these crazy numbers and said it’s not uncommon to see this and we will be doing another curve next week

                              Has anyone else seen this kind of craziness in the numbers and I know they said not to get too caught up in the numbers but I guess it just seems to be so crazy

                              Athena also has Cushings. She’s had Cushings for a few years now Full thyroid panel was good

                              Thanks 🙏 💕🐾

                              Comment

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