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Old 07-08-2010, 06:49 PM
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Default Jesse girl

Hi my doggie has been diagnosed diabetic since easter she also had pacreatitis . She is a very sweet girl and doing pretty good . we've finally got her numbers in better range she is on nph insulin the walmart brand . I home test with walgreens true track pretty accurate under 200 and can be alittle incosistent above that I do have a ultra mini to double check if number doesnt seem to be wright her are some numbers and the pattern stay cosistant

5:15am 143
6:00am fed blue buffalo weight control
7:00am 5u shot go for half hour rabbit run
8:35am 96
8:53am 119
9:30am 94
10:00am 183
12:00pm 265
1:00pm 229
3:30pm 254
4:20pm 194
5:30pm 123
6:00pm 109 fed cup b weight control usually drop flattens at this point

these numbers are far better than where she was at 300 and 400 so ime happy but when your in higher numbers it is less fearful even though its not good for her . going for walks and playing is not a problem and also going to work her food seems to be starting to kick out sugar at about 2 hours and 45 minutes and peaks at 6 hours and dies at 4:00 pm give or take so I have tried to time her shot by this with much better success than in the past thinking the big drops and rise were rebound but appears to be insulin wasnt working with food my problem is to try to flatten this out especially the spike at 10 am and drop at 4:00 pm I have eliminated that spike before with 5.5 units but got to low at the end of the cycle . It maybe just a food thing but ive tried other foods with bascically same result ho-made with lean beef heart fish egg brown rice and egg and bb wilderness mostly protein . There maybe a food out there that will work great but I dont have esp but wish I did or maybe this is the way it is and maybe there can be some tweaks to get her better maybe feed her even earlier but we are maxed out on insulin amount with this food I am getting worn out and jesse is a dogie pin cushion but it has got me and her to a better place any help would be appreciated

Last edited by jesse girl; 07-08-2010 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:47 AM
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Default Re: any thoughts in improving these numbers

Have been doing a lot of thinking about your dog overnight. I can completely sympathize with your "pin cushion" analogy. My pug was exactly the same, I think when she was first diagnosed, I tested her on average 15 times per day. she was also erratic to begin with, and took a lot of innovation to keep her in good numbers. You have done well to try figuring out when the food is utilized as opposed to the insulin absorption rate. The first several months after diagnosis, dogs are all over the place, and you do what you need to do to keep them at reasonable levels. However, as they go along, it is best IF it is possible to get them back to more normal insulin/food routines. That is because the insulin actually does work best when it works together with the food. My opinon only, after going through where you are for nearly a year, before getting my dog level.

I think the problem can be compounded by waiting too long to give the insulin after food. IF the insulin is lasting 12 hrs., then it is still in her system when you are feeding the next meal, and may help that drop you are getting. As you wait longer and longer to give the shot, the overlap with the next meal becomes more and more pronounced. It is highly unusual, not unheard of, for a dog to digest their food so slowly that it does not raise the bg for several hours. Have you tried digestive enzymes?
I tried them with my pug, and it increased her digestion rate so much I couldn't continue, but in your dog it may just be the trick you need.

If it were my dog, and having gone through this innovation/exploration/learning process myself, I would lower her dose slightly, and try once again to feed and give insulin within 1/2 hr of the food. If it appears you get too much drop after the meal, you could try some digestive enzymes. Or you can add some quicker carbs such as white bread. I know that you have tried some of these things before, but the really annoying thing about newly diagnosed diabetics is that they change! What did not work last month, may indeed work now.

I agree with you that your numbrs are a bit low. There just is not enough wiggle room for an unexpected drop. Esp if you are working and not home. I am lucky enough to be home 24/7.

These are just my opinions on the subject, and you will find lots of different ones, as the truth of the matter is, every dog is a unique case. But looking back at my struggles for so long, and how easy it all is now, I think i would have got here more easily and quickly, if I had realized that in the beginning, one theory you have on how your dog is reacting via bg readings, can be blown to bits the following week. So you keep trying, but heading back towards a more "normal" pattern, is a good way to keep from getting too far from the way insulin is designed to work.

Hugs Joan
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: any thoughts in improving these numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan View Post
Have been doing a lot of thinking about your dog overnight. I can completely sympathize with your "pin cushion" analogy. My pug was exactly the same, I think when she was first diagnosed, I tested her on average 15 times per day. she was also erratic to begin with, and took a lot of innovation to keep her in good numbers. You have done well to try figuring out when the food is utilized as opposed to the insulin absorption rate. The first several months after diagnosis, dogs are all over the place, and you do what you need to do to keep them at reasonable levels. However, as they go along, it is best IF it is possible to get them back to more normal insulin/food routines. That is because the insulin actually does work best when it works together with the food. My opinon only, after going through where you are for nearly a year, before getting my dog level.

I think the problem can be compounded by waiting too long to give the insulin after food. IF the insulin is lasting 12 hrs., then it is still in her system when you are feeding the next meal, and may help that drop you are getting. As you wait longer and longer to give the shot, the overlap with the next meal becomes more and more pronounced. It is highly unusual, not unheard of, for a dog to digest their food so slowly that it does not raise the bg for several hours. Have you tried digestive enzymes?
I tried them with my pug, and it increased her digestion rate so much I couldn't continue, but in your dog it may just be the trick you need.

If it were my dog, and having gone through this innovation/exploration/learning process myself, I would lower her dose slightly, and try once again to feed and give insulin within 1/2 hr of the food. If it appears you get too much drop after the meal, you could try some digestive enzymes. Or you can add some quicker carbs such as white bread. I know that you have tried some of these things before, but the really annoying thing about newly diagnosed diabetics is that they change! What did not work last month, may indeed work now.

I agree with you that your numbrs are a bit low. There just is not enough wiggle room for an unexpected drop. Esp if you are working and not home. I am lucky enough to be home 24/7.

These are just my opinions on the subject, and you will find lots of different ones, as the truth of the matter is, every dog is a unique case. But looking back at my struggles for so long, and how easy it all is now, I think i would have got here more easily and quickly, if I had realized that in the beginning, one theory you have on how your dog is reacting via bg readings, can be blown to bits the following week. So you keep trying, but heading back towards a more "normal" pattern, is a good way to keep from getting too far from the way insulin is designed to work.

Hugs Joan
Thanks very much joan I thought of the same thing some digestive enzymes she did have a pancreatitis and that could have disturbed the process of digestion but her poops are good she is getting healthier every day and more active which leads to another problem she drops significantly with exercise she is just so sensitive to the insulin but your probably wright as time goes on she may develop to more of a normal way do you have any recommendations on those digestive enzymes thanks
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: any thoughts in improving these numbers

the problem for trying the lower dose at about mealtime it still will drive he numbers down pretty hard and when the food kicks in we are off to the raises she is just so sensitive to the insulin and her digestion takes such a long time to get sugar in her system today I gave her food 15 minutes earlier and still not quite there Ime not sure if this is a very special case or it does happen once in a while. Its definitely better then where she was. Ill keep experimenting cant hurt to go another 15 minutes there are some good things she will be higher when ime gone and lower when ime home.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: any thoughts in improving these numbers

these are some digestive enzymes I have used. However since I no longer use them on my diabetic pug, but on some of the others, there are probably others here who can direct you better.

http://www.natural-dog-health-remedi...-for-dogs.html

BTW, I am wondering what a rabbit run is? If we are talking about strenuous exercise, you might try, on the days you are not working, to give that exercise at her high times, as opposed to her lows, and see if it is the exercise making the drop. I know it may not be possible while you work, but if you find if its the rabbit run, then adjusting the food/insulin is not going to make as much difference as adjusting the timing of the exercise when possible.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: any thoughts in improving these numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan View Post
these are some digestive enzymes I have used. However since I no longer use them on my diabetic pug, but on some of the others, there are probably others here who can direct you better.

http://www.natural-dog-health-remedi...-for-dogs.html

BTW, I am wondering what a rabbit run is? If we are talking about strenuous exercise, you might try, on the days you are not working, to give that exercise at her high times, as opposed to her lows, and see if it is the exercise making the drop. I know it may not be possible while you work, but if you find if its the rabbit run, then adjusting the food/insulin is not going to make as much difference as adjusting the timing of the exercise when possible.
yeah the rabbit run is mostly smelling sometimes she will find one and chase it its amazing its more than an hour and a half after she eats and no influence of food at that time you would think no problem but yes there is a problem this is what she enjoys most in life and ive tried to structure the program so she can have some fun she was at 200 when we left when we came back she was 50 Ide like to do latter times but its very hot and work is a problem with that but maybe ill try a spoon full of sugar before the run and shorten the run and see her number before and after like I said the 5.5 dose will keep her within 20 points all day but we are starting at a low level already so she is at about a 100 20 points up or down through the day had to pump her with sugar to pick her up no wiggle room must test alot at least she is normal for a day . gave her a pancake over an hour ago and see no signs of that in he numbers she must be an alien dog or something like that
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: any thoughts in improving these numbers

Exactly how long since she was diagnosed, this past Easter, April? What is her weight, I apologize if you have already given this info someplace, just dont see it here.
What is the lowest reading or group of readings you have ever found?
I am out for several hrs now, but will check back as soon as I return.

Last edited by Joan; 07-09-2010 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: any thoughts in improving these numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan View Post
Exactly how long since she was diagnosed, this past Easter, April? What is her weight, I apologize if you have already given this info someplace, just dont see it here.
What is the lowest reading or group of readings you have ever found?
I am out for several hrs now, but will check back as soon as I return.
shes about 26 pounds actually very healthy better than years ago yes Easter this year diagnosed. very low on readings but once again insulin got ahead of sugar . the pancake with sryup finally kicked almost 2 hours shes at 140. she used to be a free eater before this and ate small amounts trough the day now she is eating 2 big meals a day which is one cup of blue weight control twice a day they recommend 1.5 cups a day and she is getting 2 she was pretty thin so i gave her a little extra and she is looking pretty good so maybe ill cut her back a little maybe having that much food in the belly makes a difference or maybe the sugar is going someplace else to be stored she seems to poop twice a day maybe a handful if thats not to descriptive for you and looks good as far as poop goes so everything seems to be working but why so late on the blood sugar looked online cant find anything I think I can regulate her even if it is taking this long its just the timing must be there and i may have to give her a boost at the end . that can be done with my schedule.
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Old 07-09-2010, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: any thoughts in improving these numbers

These numbers are very good. If this curve is representative then she's in good shape. Exercise and heat will drop her BGs so you need to be careful there. You should give her a carb treat prior to your run so she doesn't drop too low. Buffalo blue weight control vs . the wilderness seems to flatten the curve nicely. You may have to give her a bit more insulin, but it may be flatter if you'd like to try a different diet.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: any thoughts in improving these numbers

I probably would stick with what you have. It's a really really nice curve and the foray into 200s is brief and not very high. Congratulations!!

And I don't think her readings are too low either. There's plenty of room for variation before she gets near low blood sugar.

It's an unusual time for a spike! Seems like she must be taking a while to digest some of her food. So I think the digestive enzymes would be worth a try.

But if this is as good as it gets, this is lovely.

I agree that you will have to watch the exercise as potentially dropping her further on an extra exciting day or hot day. A little carby snack beforehand would help ensure she doesn't go too low.

Natalie
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