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  #21  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:50 PM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden

july 12 numbers 2 units


3.30 am 196
5.10 am 156
fed at 5.00
6.30 am 396 meter can be off quite a bit at these levels sugar release from her body possible dont believe it is food goes down quick and doesnt come back
went for hour run
shot 7.15 am
8.12 146
8.30 124
9.00 am 106
9.30 am 126 It appears food enters the equation at this point
5.30 pm 199 she may have dropped from higher numbers
600 pm 384 we dont know what this is it happened at the same time in thw am well I call it a gift we can have lots of exercise and fun The last week we couldn't do much with these low numbers she seem to cut it down with her energy
good hard run for half hour 6.40 319



as you can see the insulin is ahead of the food for a bit and we do have a blow up within a half hour maybe something in the food digested early I dont think so or its hormonal secreted from he body its all theory and speculation i may rais a tad and holed off on the shot till 730
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  #22  
Old 07-12-2010, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden

That rise in the morning is undoubtedly a result of not giving insulin.

Even once it's injected, the insulin takes a while to be absorbed and put to use. In some dogs it can take an hour or more. An hour and a half is plenty of time for food to be converted to glucose.

So in Jesse's case she needs that injection earlier, not later.

Natalie
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  #23  
Old 07-13-2010, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden

I gave her shot 2.5 hours after her food tonight she went from 300 to 100 from 9 pm to 10 pm then it moved up to 128 at 10:30 I gave it to her earlier this drop would start earlier before this food got going I don't believe this is food I see it as hormonal she is dropping at the end of the cycle and maybe her body is kicking in this it has happened the last 2 days not before what ever it is it is not continuous its one big lump of glucose it doesnt go any higher exercise can remove alot of it and with insulin even a half unit that 300 will be 50 in a half hour if given with food and it is not pretty Ive done alot of testing and the earlier i go the worse it is . Ime not sure whats going on she defiantly acts like a mountain she drops pretty good until that 4.5 hour mark where she rise not hard but steady to me that shows true interaction of the food which is overwhelming the insulin at that time. after about 9 hours after food the insulin takes the lead and she drops the last 3hours and the that rise is within 15 minute she will be 199 and 15 minutes she will be at at 384 she can exercise and loose 100 of those points and it doesnt come back I would think food is continuous once it starts until its done ime not sure what is happening she does have long ranges with good numbers but these drops are not good she hardly is getting any insulin we were at 5 units a week ago and holding and now ime at 2.5 thats a big drop in a short time maybe an unusual case I dont know but will keep working on it thanks for your advice natalie
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  #24  
Old 07-13-2010, 12:19 AM
AlisonandMia AlisonandMia is offline
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Default Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden

Is Jesse spayed?

Alison
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  #25  
Old 07-13-2010, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden

she had her uterus removed when she was diagnosed with diabetes and pancreatitis because they said she had an infection and it needed to be operated on I think that will cover that

When I went To 2.5 unit she went down pretty fast last night.

I will go back to 2 shes high right now and I will go with natalies suggestion and give her shot and food at same time.

It still might be rebound Ime not sure with higher doses can the insulin overwhelm rebound and not let it dramatically climb and keep her numbers low but as time goes by the stored glucose in her system becomes depleted and this dose becomes way to much as far as the amount of units I give her.

I went to five and that worked for a couple days then she went low then 4.5 went low then 4 went to low then two not low but still could drop pretty good went back up to 2.5 dropped pretty fast 4 hours after food and then blew up from 98 to the 300s.

It may be one of 2 things rebound and giving her to much insulin which is already very small amounts poor interaction of food and insulin maybe some how she is producing some insulin of her own sporadically and this could make any dose high at times I dont even know if this is possible or if anybody has any other ideas on what may be going on i would appreciate it has anyone tried the digestive enzymes and how did it affect digestion? Did it stay constant?

She was good for a short time and I thought we had a plan but we are back to square one but still determined to find something that works could the insulin be to hard for her system Is there something more gentle maybe that was vetsulin.
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  #26  
Old 07-13-2010, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden

Did they remove the ovaries?

Natalie
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  #27  
Old 07-13-2010, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden

Given how flat the blood sugar stayed after the spike, I tend not to think rebound.

Once you try giving food and insulin together, let's look at the numbers and see if maybe the diet needs a bit of tweaking. You can add some carbs to absorb a big kick from insulin, for example.

But before suggesting any other changes I would want to see whether food and shot together eliminates the spike or tames it and doesn't cause problems somewhere else.

If she still has ovaries, then she could be having fluctuations related to her hormones. Dogs sometimes develop a type of diabetes where they are need significantly less or even no insulin in between heat cycles. Connie and Gypsy here are a good example. Once Gypsy was spayed, she was no longer diabetic. Sometimes they aren't diabetic at all and sometimes they are still diabetic after spaying. Before spaying it's a wild rollercoaster of high and low blood sugar as it vacillates with hormone levels.

So very important to know if they took the ovaries too.

Natalie
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  #28  
Old 07-13-2010, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden

here are jesses numbers for this morning at 1.5 units shot and insulin given at same time as food

4:19 am 399
5:30 am 408
7:00 am 299 after hour walk 3/4 cup bb weight control and 1.5 u of insulin
8:20 am 369 shot hasnt kicked in yet
9:00 am 299 shot has kicked in
9:30 am 255
10:00 am 293
5:00 pm 362

It seems to be the same story 3 hours after the shot she gets that steep rise I dont think it makes any difference when I feed her its that 3 hours after shot big move down and up Ime starting to believe with you that the sugar is being dumped by her body whether it is rebound hormonal or she just doesnt like being low but where is the food impact is just going to the storage area for another dump as you can see from my other numbers the spike was there but smaller because of the larger dose can higher doses lower the efect of the body releasing blood sugar we no the problem its seems she just wants to be higher when she drops it seems to be hard on her gets tired I think you said something about getting used to being high and the body gets nervous about being in those low numbers but she has been flat or around the same number for hours and we still get that spike the only time she didnt get that spike was with more insulin but that did not work because she kept droping all day and intervention kept it at bay but it took alot of sugar I have used r insulin in the past during high times it actully kept her flat for hours and her numbers barely budge but it only took 1/2 a unit and sometimes less she would go from the 300s to 150s and stay there for hours this would be after the spike and the rest of the afternoon she would be as flat as a pancake so you can see the spike can be eliminated with more insulin or r insulin the latter wont work unless as you say carb her up but ime still not sure about her digestion time by looking at these numbers i see no influence of food let me know what you think natalie I appreciate your service and help
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  #29  
Old 07-13-2010, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden

I think ill give her 1 unit and see what happens maybe food at 6 and shot at 7 that gave her the best results but at 4 to 5 units but like I said it may be reacting to that possible dump of sugar and more insulin can hang with it and when it doesnt happen she just goes to low because there isnt enough sugar to act on. this all started after being in heat in march so there may be a hormonal aspect i will call the emergency vet to see if they removed her ovaries you would think so
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  #30  
Old 07-13-2010, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse girl View Post
here are jesses numbers for this morning at 1.5 units shot and insulin given at same time as food

4:19 am 399
5:30 am 408

7:00 am 299 after hour walk 3/4 cup bb weight control and 1.5 u of insulin
8:20 am 369 shot hasnt kicked in yet
9:00 am 299 shot has kicked in
9:30 am 255
10:00 am 293
5:00 pm 362

It seems to be the same story 3 hours after the shot. She gets that steep rise. I dont think it makes any difference when I feed her. Its that 3 hours after shot, big move down and up.

I'm starting to believe with you that the sugar is being dumped by her body, whether it is rebound, hormonal, or she just doesnt like being low. But where is the food impact is just going to the storage area for another dump. As you can see from my other numbers the spike was there but smaller because of the larger dose.

Quote:
july 12 numbers 2 units
3.30 am 196
fed at 5.00
5.10 am 156
6.30 am 396 went for hour run
shot 7.15 am
8.12 146
8.30 124
9.00 am 106
9.30 am 126 It appears food enters the equation at this point
5.30 pm 199 she may have dropped from higher numbers
600 pm 384 good hard run for half hour
6.40 319
Can higher doses lower the effect of the body releasing blood sugar? We no the problem. It seems she just wants to be higher. When she drops it seems to be hard on her gets tired. I think you said something about getting used to being high and the body gets nervous about being in those low numbers, but she has been flat or around the same number for hours and we still get that spike.

The only time she didnt get that spike was with more insulin. But that did not work because she kept droping all day and intervention kept it at bay. But it took alot of sugar.

I have used R insulin in the past during high times. It actully kept her flat for hours and her numbers barely budge. But it only took 1/2 a unit and sometimes less. She would go from the 300s to 150s and stay there for hours this would be after the spike and the rest of the afternoon she would be as flat as a pancake.

So you can see the spike can be eliminated with more insulin or R insulin. The latter wont work unless as you say carb her up. But I'm still not sure about her digestion time. By looking at these numbers i see no influence of food. Let me know what you think natalie. I appreciate your service and help
I combined some information as it's easier for me to read through and see the whole picture.

I'd suggest as Natalie did, staying with the food/insulin at the same time for at least 3-4 days to see a true picture of how they are working together. Keeping all things (exercise, etc) as consistent as possible. That will give the body time to adjust to the new routine and whatever residual insulin is working in the background at injection times.

Then I'd do another curve and decide what tweaking needs to be done, whether it's adding enzymes, splitting her meals a bit differently, or adding a carb source.

You also asked about digestive enzymes:
Quote:
i would appreciate it has anyone tried the digestive enzymes and how did it affect digestion? Did it stay constant?
I know of several people who have used Viokase or Aunt Jeni's Enhance with good results. The enzymes should aid in digesting her food so the glucose is available quicker.

Look forward to learning if her ovaries where removed as well!
Patty
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