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  #21  
Old 05-31-2017, 07:59 PM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: Testing after regulation

Expiry dates for insulin are for unopened vials. Once opened, a lot of websites say that insulin can start to lose potency after 28-30 days. So yes it's still effective after the 30 days, just not as effective.
I didn't buy into that before, but now I'm curious, and I'm going to watch my dog's numbers after 30 days.
And if I'm going to increase his dose after a curve, I'll make sure it's with insulin less than 30 days old, just in case.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #22  
Old 06-01-2017, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Testing after regulation

When Maggie was on Humulin N, I could always tell a big difference when the vial was over thirty days old. Her numbers started going up gradually. Novolin N didn't seem as bad - it could always go a little longer. But, once I got my insulin at Wal Mart, it was inexpensive enough that I just replaced it every month.
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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  #23  
Old 07-08-2017, 04:33 PM
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Default Mollie's Story

Mollie was diagnosed on April 3 with 4+ keytones , a glucose level >700 and She was immediately treated with fast acting insulin, she remained at the vet as an out patient for the remainder of the day and began insulin therapy (Humulin N) of 2 units 2X a day and eating Hills w/d canned food, can 2 X a day with outpatient monitoring for 4 days until I received my AlphaTrack

She was at 4 units of insulin but I am still concerned about her numbers. She saw the vet a little over a week ago to have a fructosamine test and urinalysis, she has developed cataracts almost overnight, once the cataracts form can anyone tell me about how long she will have before she looses her vision?

Her urine is clear had no glucose and the vet called Wednesday with the results from the fructosamine tests and is reducing the insulin to 3 units 2X a day and mentioned a somogyi effect which I really do not understand, she is supposed to send me more info in an email but I have not received it yet. I searched the forum and could not find an explanation for this. The results of the curve after 7 days of the reduced insulin are listed below.

She is now at 11 pounds, down from 13.5, she was overweight and experiencing problems with her knees but I do not want her to lose any more weight. I am so new at this that I do not want to add something to her food but I am very concerned about the weight loss. Does anyone have ideas on how to stabilize her weight?

I am concerned that her numbers are still too high I am home testing using the Alphatrack 2, it appeared that she was on the way to regulation on 6/9 and 6/20 then on 6/27 the numbers were on the rise again. Any time I have an extremely high or low number I check the meter using the control solution. The last four 12 hour curves .
6/9
6 AM fasting 137 4 units insulin 1/2 can Hills w/d
8 AM 164
10 AM 192
12 PM 343
2 PM 296
4 PM 286
6 PM fasting 209

6/20
6 AM fasting 179 4 units insulin 1/2 can Hills w/d
8 AM 238
10 AM 349
12 PM 301
2 PM 211
4 PM 142
6 PM 129


6/27
6 AM fasting 434 4 units insulin 1/2 can Hills w/d
8 AM 231
10 AM 309
12 PM 332
2 PM 300
4 PM 164
6 PM fasting 159

07/06
6 AM fasting 513 3 units Humulin 2X a day 1/2 can Hills w/d
8 AM 385
10 AM 390
12 PM 479
2 PM 363
4 PM 469
6 PM Fasting 494

I would appreciate any comments because I am very confused about wy reducing the insulin amount and having higher numbers is good for her.
Tomorrow she will begin using the Novolin from Walmart instead of the Humulin, should I check her before the 7 days of continuous use on the new insulin?
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Miss Mollie, rescue pup, Malti-Poo, 12 years old, 10 pounds, diagnosed on 4/3/2017
She is eating Hills w/d, kibble 1/4 c green beans, 1 tbsp Pumpkin 2X a day, insulin is Novolin currently at 6 units 2X a day
Using AlphaTrack2 for home testing
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  #24  
Old 07-08-2017, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Mollie's Story

I'm also confused why the vet suggested the insulin reduction. She seemed good on 4 units, and is higher on 3 units. Also, I don't believe you can determine Somogyi overswing from a fructosamine test. I personally, would return to 4 units. You are home testing and haven't seen any readings below 100ish?

About her weight. You are feeding w/d which is a high fiber diet. This would be a great diet to loose weight, but not gain weight. If you want to stay with w/d, and gain weight, you'll probably have to increase the portion size. Of course a larger portion size might need slightly more insulin. Another way would be to swap out some the the w/d with a more normal (less fiber) food.

Cataracts vary from dog to dog. You might want to see a specialist. My Annie battled eye problems for years (eye drops, surgeries and more eye drops) before going totally blind. Actually, blindness isn't so bad for Annie.

If you feel like testing when switching to Novolin-N, go ahead. More than likely the numbers won't be that different than with Humulin-N.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2017, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Mollie's Story

hi and welcome

i would do another curve at 3 units on july 13th ( week from the last curve )

if still at the same levels as the last curve i would bump it up to 3.5 units then wait a week and do another curve

it looks like the 4 units is as high as you can go for now . so you know the top end of the equation and maybe you will now the bottom with another curve

now if the numbers turn much lower on 3 its possible you may have to reduce further

your vet is talking about rebound . when a dose is to much you may see big swings in blood sugar from low to high and high to low . its a protection mechanism of the body to keep an individual dog from going to low so the body dumps sugar from its stored reserves thats why you see these big swings

now its possible the 4 units may level out a bit better many of the ranges was pretty good but i understand your vets concern and why what he did

as far as cataracts its and individual dog thing but for dogs sight isn't their primary sense and actually a dogs sight isn't the best to start with . usually they adapt very well to the new reality. of course we have a harder time with it

doing really well this new into this and glad your testing sugar at home it will be a big help
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Jesse-26 lbs - 15 years old - 9.5 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 8 and 10 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number

Last edited by jesse girl; 07-08-2017 at 05:28 PM.
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  #26  
Old 07-08-2017, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Mollie's Story

I'm confused why the vet reduced the insulin when the curves were good on 4 units. You usually don't reduce based on fructosamine.
4 units is a good dose based on his weight. Once he is regulated he'll probably gain a pound or two. My dog lost about 4 lbs but gained it all back.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2017, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Mollie's Story

I don't see how the vet determined from a fructosimine test that she was experiencing somogyi. I would go back to 4 since the numbers at 3 are across the board higher. The curves tell the story. At the very least, go to 3.5 units. The logic doesn't make any sense.
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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  #28  
Old 07-09-2017, 05:00 AM
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Default Re: Mollie's Story

Hi there!
I just wanted to add my welcome! You and Miss Mollie have found a wealth of information when you found this forum, and of course, people that live this diabetes thing day to day! I have always found everyone to be very caring and extremely supportive!

I found this website http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Monitoring_Somogyi.aspx that explains the Somogyi effect better than I could. I thought graph they used was a great illustration. I'm no expert, but I didn't really see that in the numbers you shared.

You've already had some good advise, I don't have a thing to add to that. You already have a really good handle I think this. I'm glad you've found us!
Mel and her Monster Vinny
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Mel: My monster is Vinny! He's a black lab, diagnosed with diabetes June 21, 2013. His birthdate was celebrated the last weekend of May. He left this world on July 27, 2018, he was 12 years old.
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  #29  
Old 07-09-2017, 06:16 AM
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Default Re: Mollie's Story

The curves on the 4 units don't look that bad and the 4 unit low number is pretty much there.

But... I overshot Daisy by only .2 units and her numbers were back in the 300-400's on fasting. Daisy lost 6 lbs with high glucose numbers so I stabilized her weight by adding a little food (1/4c) very slowly. I thought because of the extra food, I needed to up her insulin. It was suggested here that I drop back the dosage a little and when I did, she was back in normal range.
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Daisy 11 y/o 20lb Mini Schnauzer - 115g chicken breast, 45g chana dal, 55g green beans all chopped in a food processor, 20g Hills Perfect Weight, 1 tbs pumpkin, 5.5 units Novolin N q12h.
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  #30  
Old 07-09-2017, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: Mollie's Story

As veryone else has mentioned, I also don't see anything in her curves that would indicate somogyi rebound.

Her numbers at 4 units look pretty good. If you are switching to Novolin N tomorrow, it wouldn't hurt to leave her at 3 units for 5-7 days while doing spot checks and let it settle in, re-evaluate and adjust the dose accordingly.

It looks like you are very close to the proper dose, so I would only make .5 unit adjustments.
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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine
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