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  #11  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:23 PM
Beau1 Beau1 is offline
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Default Re: Diagnosed today - lots of confusion and questionable veterinary visit/info

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Originally Posted by MikeMurphy View Post

Like others have said, it looks like your vet is doing all the right things.
The vet wants to keep Laika at the vet's all day, from 8am to about 4 or 4:30, so they could monitor her glucose levels. I haven't seen vets monitor dog's glucose anywhere online. This vet seems very oriented towards making more money. You and others have said dog owners do their own monitoring and determine the dog's insulin levels themselves using glucose monitors.

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Originally Posted by MikeMurphy View Post
Did the vet give her anything for the UTI? It’s very important to clear up any infections. Otherwise, the insulin is not going to work properly.
Later on, the vet failed to mention the UTI again, or get back to us on the urine culture. We had to call back tonight to ask about it. I talked about the urine culture with the receptionist, and mentioned it to the vet during the call, but she still didn't tell me about the urine culture - did they get the results yet or not?

During my call to the vet's tonight, I also brought up the UTI with her, and the need for antibiotics, so she prescribed it, and we can pick it up tomorrow.

Looks like they are very disorganized and forgetful about important aspects of our dog's health, too.


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Originally Posted by MikeMurphy View Post
What is Laika’s weight?
She was 19 lbs when she was weighed during our first vet visit last Thursday. The vet said Laika was a bit overweight - she said you should be able to feel your dog's ribs like the top of your hand. Is that true for all dogs? Laika is a chihuahua mix, likely with pug and other stuff. She's larger and bigger-boned than a standard chihuahua. I'd hate to see her suffer by being hungry and having too little food - while she's suffering from diabetes and UTI.



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Originally Posted by MikeMurphy View Post
Most of us here home test. This is the single, most important thing you can do in managing her diabetes. It can save a ton of money and more importantly, keep your dog’s life safe by knowing how she reacts to all kinds of situations, like exercise, treats, food, and stress.
Yes, it seems that vet clinic is just trying to make a ton of money by having Laika in all day so they could test her blood glucose all day. That sounds like a very unnecessary thousands of dollars for that all-day visit!

Thank you for all that information.

Last edited by Beau1; 04-29-2019 at 11:42 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:54 PM
Beau1 Beau1 is offline
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Default Re: Diagnosed today - lots of confusion and questionable veterinary visit/info

Since we're going to determine our dog's glucose curve and insulin levels by monitoring her glucose at home instead of having a vet do it - we're going to need a glucose monitor ASAP. I've seen some on Amazon, Chewy, and elsewhere. Are there any glucose monitors that are recommended?

There seems to be standard monitors as well as continuous glucose monitors. Are those continuous ones worth the higher cost?

I see that some people use human monitors for their dogs. Are human monitors better, worse, or no different from dog monitors? Do some dogs benefit from human monitors more than others?

It seems that doing a glucose curve all day, even at home, is not necessary. Can we just give our dog the approximate insulin amount for her weight, and see if it needs adjusting?

Last edited by Beau1; 04-30-2019 at 12:06 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-30-2019, 09:35 AM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: Diagnosed today - lots of confusion and questionable veterinary visit/info

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Originally Posted by Beau1 View Post
Since we're going to determine our dog's glucose curve and insulin levels by monitoring her glucose at home instead of having a vet do it - we're going to need a glucose monitor ASAP. I've seen some on Amazon, Chewy, and elsewhere. Are there any glucose monitors that are recommended?

There seems to be standard monitors as well as continuous glucose monitors. Are those continuous ones worth the higher cost?

I see that some people use human monitors for their dogs. Are human monitors better, worse, or no different from dog monitors? Do some dogs benefit from human monitors more than others?

It seems that doing a glucose curve all day, even at home, is not necessary. Can we just give our dog the approximate insulin amount for her weight, and see if it needs adjusting?
The most common pet glucometers are the Advocate PetTest and the AlphaTrak2. In both cases the manufacturers test strips are recommended and can be expensive.

The OneTouch Ultra2 and OneTouch Ultra Mini are the most popular human glucometers. With these you can use Equate, GenUltimate or Unistrip test strips, which are way less expensive. I’ve been using Walmart’s ReliOn Prime meter for my Lily for six years and found it to be very consistent. In general, human meters read a dog’s BG a bit lower than the pet meters.

As far as continuous monitoring systems like the FreeStyle Libre go, I don’t know much about them other than the monitor needs to be applied to your dog’s skin and needs to be changed every few weeks.

In regards to curves, 12 hour curves are very necessary to get a dog’s BG regulated, especially in the beginning. Doing them at home is preferred because your dog will be under less stress than at the vet.
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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine

Last edited by MikeMurphy; 04-30-2019 at 09:37 AM.
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  #14  
Old 04-30-2019, 11:37 AM
Beau1 Beau1 is offline
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Default Re: Diagnosed today - lots of confusion and questionable veterinary visit/info

So we're still trying to decide on a glucose meter for Laika. Human - or the pet ones?

She's been more lethargic than ever today. She's been losing weight and is down to 14 lbs this morning. She was 19 lbs at the vet last Thursday, just 5 days ago. The weight loss is due to the weight she was already losing due to her illnesses, and also because the vet said she was overweight, and prescribed just a can of Rx food per day. So we've been feeding her quite a bit less than before.

Is it okay to increase her insulin to about 2 units each time? Or even 3 units, if it doesn't look like she's getting much better? We're giving it to her twice a day, spaced 12 hours apart, as the vet said.

I called the vet last night, and she prescribed Baytril 22.7 mg, 1/2 tablet every 12 hours for 21 days. So that's 1 tablet a day. Does this seem right? Anyone had experience with Baytril for their dog's UTI?

The vet's office really doesn't like answering our questions. They've been painfully rude and condescending to us - like we're irritating them by asking very valid questions that anyone would ask. So I'm left having to ask these questions online. They definitely do not like us - we're not going back.
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  #15  
Old 04-30-2019, 02:51 PM
Riliey and Mo Riliey and Mo is offline
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Default Re: Diagnosed today - lots of confusion and questionable veterinary visit/info

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMurphy View Post
The most common pet glucometers are the Advocate PetTest and the AlphaTrak2. In both cases the manufacturers test strips are recommended and can be expensive.

The OneTouch Ultra2 and OneTouch Ultra Mini are the most popular human glucometers. With these you can use Equate, GenUltimate or Unistrip test strips, which are way less expensive. Iíve been using Walmartís ReliOn Prime meter for my Lily for six years and found it to be very consistent. In general, human meters read a dogís BG a bit lower than the pet meters.

As far as continuous monitoring systems like the FreeStyle Libre go, I donít know much about them other than the monitor needs to be applied to your dogís skin and needs to be changed every few weeks.

In regards to curves, 12 hour curves are very necessary to get a dogís BG regulated, especially in the beginning. Doing them at home is preferred because your dog will be under less stress than at the vet.
Heres Mikes info again on meters to get
Seems like 1 unit is not enough for a 14lb dog. 2.8 would be better in my opinion
Upping the dose i.d recommend by 2 units to 3. Only when you start home monitoring so you can monitor his bg readings especially starting antibiotics.
I didnt use a vet and relied on the members here in the forum to start.
Your doing great
Mo
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  #16  
Old 04-30-2019, 09:48 PM
Beau1 Beau1 is offline
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Default Re: Diagnosed today - lots of confusion and questionable veterinary visit/info

Unfortunately, Laika has been at her worst today. She's been more lethargic than ever before - and not just in the morning, like in previous days, but all day today.

We picked up the antibiotic for her UTI today, and tonight I gave her 1/2 tablet hidden in bits of the Rx food. She did eat that.

But she didn't really want to eat her dinner today. It's the first time she didn't want to eat. She didn't want the Hills Rx w/d Chicken that she eagerly ate the past few days. We mixed them with vegetables, and she didn't want any of it. She did eat if I fed a bit of veggies to her by hand. We tried warming up the food and adding veggie broth, but she still won't touch it. We tried separating the Rx food from the veggies, but she still didn't want it. She really wanted the chicken dish we had - and when we gave her bits of the chicken, she scarfed it up. She's not supposed to have that type of salty, oily, spicy, processed food, though.

Since she hardly ate anything tonight, we didn't give her the insulin. I heard insulin shouldn't be given if your dog didn't eat. She did eat a little - and I read you can give her half the amount of insulin if she ate half her food. But giving her .5 unit just seemed too little and unnecessary.

She's getting thinner everyday. She's a lost a patch of fur where her front leg meets her body. Her ears, gums, and skin on her underside are often reddish. Her tail is always down, when it used to be always curled on her back. Her rear paws started turning white a few days ago, and have been getting whiter everyday. Her muzzle is getting whiter, too, though it started getting a bit whiter some time ago. She's 7 years ago. She seems so sick, listless, and low in energy, just lying down most of the time.

We're pretty worried about her. I guess we should call a vet again. The ones we went to were unacceptable in many ways towards us, and I feel they've compromised the health of our dog, and caused us a lot of stress and work - self-educating instead of getting answers/help from them.

Last edited by Beau1; 04-30-2019 at 09:53 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2019, 05:51 AM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: Diagnosed today - lots of confusion and questionable veterinary visit/info

Iíd get her to a vet as soon as you can. If you donít trust your current vet, find a new one.

Insulin should be given, even if your dog doesnít eat. Just so you know, here are the guidelines for giving insulin:

If your dog doesnít eat or if she eats 1/4 of her meal... give 1/4 insulin.
1/2 meal... give 1/2 insulin.
3/4 meal... give 3/4 insulin.
Full meal... give full insulin dose.
__________________
Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2019, 11:41 AM
Riliey and Mo Riliey and Mo is offline
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Default Re: Diagnosed today - lots of confusion and questionable veterinary visit/info

He needs to eat seems he wants chicken
If its dry food try moisening it abit
Put a topping of lean no fat cut up chicken or salmon on his food see if he eats it
If he doesnt scoff it up try another food
Still not eating he needs to see a vet.
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20 lb male 17 yrs. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2002 to 2017
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  #19  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:18 AM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: Diagnosed today - lots of confusion and questionable veterinary visit/info

A 14 lb dog probably should be on more than one unit of insulin. A starting dose would be 3 - 4 units. If her insulin is not enough, then her sugar will be very high, and that will cause her to lose weight and be lethargic.

Get a meter asap and start checking sugars. Once you establish the general sugar level, you'll probably be able to increase the dose. Then, wait a few days, do a curve, determine when nadir time is and the sugar level at that time, then increase dose by one unit, wait a week, another curve, increase again, until nadir is at an acceptable range.

This will take some time but that's Ok. Only increase insulin one unit at a time each week until sugars come down. Then probably a half unit at a time as nadir gets lower, as determined by each week's curve.

Find a new vet that encourages home management, and get the uti cleared up.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #20  
Old 05-02-2019, 12:42 PM
Beau1 Beau1 is offline
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Default Re: Diagnosed today - lots of confusion and questionable veterinary visit/info

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Originally Posted by Raysaint View Post
A 14 lb dog probably should be on more than one unit of insulin. A starting dose would be 3 - 4 units. If her insulin is not enough, then her sugar will be very high, and that will cause her to lose weight and be lethargic.

Get a meter asap and start checking sugars. Once you establish the general sugar level, you'll probably be able to increase the dose. Then, wait a few days, do a curve, determine when nadir time is and the sugar level at that time, then increase dose by one unit, wait a week, another curve, increase again, until nadir is at an acceptable range.

This will take some time but that's Ok. Only increase insulin one unit at a time each week until sugars come down. Then probably a half unit at a time as nadir gets lower, as determined by each week's curve.

Find a new vet that encourages home management, and get the uti cleared up.
We increased her insulin dose from 1 to 2 units this morning. She had been taking 1 unit twice a day for a week - that's what the vet said to give her. I did call the vet office we went to, and said we increased to 2 units this morning, and the vet tech said we shouldn't increase the dose without the vet's permission.

But I read everywhere online that a starting dose should be about .2 for every pound of weight. She's at 12 pounds today, and was 14 pounds just a couple of days ago. I feel her 1 unit starting dose was too low, so she wasn't improving under the insulin - just getting sicker every day, in fact. That's why we increased to 2 units this morning.

We got the AlphaTrak2 meter. Can you please explain what you wrote: "Once you establish the general sugar level, you'll probably be able to increase the dose."

Do we really need to wait a few more days to do a curve? We went to the vet last Thursday, and following their orders, we gave her 1 unit insulin twice a day, spaced 12 hours apart. We were supposed to come in to the vet's today so they could do her glucose curve all day, but I cancelled that appointment and said we'll do it ourselves.
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