Sweetheart golden/lab Jack passed away March 23, 2016

[k9diabetes]

Re: Food Quantities?

Hi Amy,

Generally, unless a dog is very active, the recommendations on the bags tend to be a lot more food than is needed. So it could be that you gave him quite a bit more calories when you switched to the Blue Buffalo.

Our dog was older and not very active and he needed about 900 to 1,000 calories per day.

Every dog's response to food and insulin is different and a food that works great for my dog can be a nightmare for yours and vice versa. If you can get started testing at home, you will be able to see what the food and insulin are doing in much better detail and can then determine whether the food generally works or whether the diet needs some tweaking or a wholesale change.

And you want to be sure with any new food you give that you keep the calorie count the same. If it's not provided on the package, you can typically the calories (kCals) per cup from the food maker's website. Counting calories allowed us to change our dog's diet relatively easily with minimal change in the insulin dose.

The huge spike and drop in blood sugar you had with the DCO is defnitely not ideal - would make it very difficult to regulate him. It could be resolved either with feeding something else or replacing some of the NPH with faster acting insulin to curb the spike.

All of which can be sorted out when you test at home.

Also wanted to mention that I don't really know why diabetes insipidus and diabetes mellitus share a name because they really don't have anything in common except excess urination. Blood sugar levels are not affected in insipidus.

You will get there if you learn to test and then take a slow methodical approach - one change at a time, test, evaluate, take the next step. With time in between insulin dose changes for the body to adjust.

Natalie

[amyt]

Jack & insulin -- 37 units 2xday and numbers still high

My Jack has had diabetes for 3 years. He's a 95-lb lab and it's too traumatic for him to go to the vet for curve checks since he's become totally blind. I can't bear to see him so helpless and scared when he's out of his normal environment, and knowing he's stuck in a cage with so many strange noises around him for 12 hours breaks my heart. So I keep track of his insulin needs at home and up the dosage when he needs more. I remember the vet saying one time that she'd had a dog that took 36 units of insulin twice per day -- saying it like it was at the outer reaches of normal. Well, Jack's at 37 units of Novalin N twice a day, and it looks like after today's 12-hour curve I'll need to up the dosage again (410 fasting, and 3rd reading is 356; for comparison, 3 months ago, his fasting number was 231). My question is: is there a tipping point where the amount of insulin I give him to control the diabetes will harm him in other ways? He's eating Purina DCO (2 cups AM and PM), getting a couple of dog bones per day, a rawhide, and the stray treat here and there. Thanks a bunch for any info you can give me.

[Joan]

Re: Jack & insulin -- 37 units 2xday and numbers still high

Welcome to you and Jack!

For a 95 lb dog, you are not at an extreme dose by any measure. Insulin resistance is usually defined at approx 1 unit per lb per day. So you are really safe increasing Jacks insulin as long as you are sure that he is not going low in between.

Since you have been caring for him with diabetes for more than 3 yrs, you are testing and keeping track well. So up to nearly 50 units per dose (twice daily) is not too much at all. If his food is matching up with a good looking glucose curve, just a bit high, then a small increase is exactly what he needs. Sometimes just limiting the treats a bit may help as well.

Hope to hear of better numbers, and good news on Jacks progress!

[Linda1]

Re: Jack & insulin -- 37 units 2xday and numbers still high

My 94 pound Lab is on 33 units each shot. Over the years with food changes, his insulin dosage has changed with the new foods. One food he was on he only needed 23 units per shot. This particular food, he needs 33.

[Judi]

Re: Jack & insulin -- 37 units 2xday and numbers still high

sounds like you've been doing great. just remember that as long as the insulin is working and he is feeling better, it doesn't matter how much he needs. he needs it.

some breeds need more insulin, Like Linda said some foods change insulin needs, ear infections, tooth infections, treats, stress from allergies

It all impacts it. Hope you are using the Walmart insulin since you must go through a lot of it! (my dog weighed 8 pounds - big difference LOL)

Judi

[Eddie]

Re: Jack & insulin -- 37 units 2xday and numbers still high

Hello and welcome

I can't add much to what's been said except that following what Judi said about things that can affect their insulin needs - we notice consistently that our dog needs more insulin in cooler temperatures than he does when it is hot. Not sure if that might apply to you but we are noticing a bit of a change now for the autumn.

Antonia

[amyt]

Re: Jack & insulin -- 37 units 2xday and numbers still high

Thank you all so much for responding so quickly. I was looking in my email for responses, until my sister said I should check the forum.... You make me feel much more secure in stepping up his dose -- I didn't know that insulin resistance was measured on a unit by pound basis, and yes, I'm a faithful Walmart pharmacy goer (mine was out of the Novalin N for a few weeks this summer, and I got quite nervous at the prospect of having to resort to more expensive measures). Jack's lowest reading today was in mid-300s, so I'm increasing by 1 unit, then checking again next week, and then another 1 most likely. What a treasure trove of knowledge is on this forum. I'm so grateful to you!!

[amydunn19]

Re: Jack & insulin -- 37 units 2xday and numbers still high

Welcome to you and Jack! Has anything changed for him recently? I know when Maggie's numbers go up, it is a sign of an infection or response to a change.

Glad to have you here!

[amyt]

Re: Jack & insulin -- 37 units 2xday and numbers still high

Well, he's been urinating more frequently and drinking more water. I was hoping it was due to hot weather, but was afraid it was a sign his levels were off which I confirmed today. Now since you guys are reminding me about the role infections play in his numbers, I'm thinking there's a chance he has an infection, so I'll drop off a urine sample for testing. You're all a bunch of angels, thanks again

[amyt]

High glucose levels and back leg weakness?

Hi, I have an 11 year old 100-lb golden retriever mix who has had diabetes for 4 years. For the past week, his back legs have gotten weaker and weaker. When he poops, he can't manage more than one effort before he either falls or has to sit for 15 or so minutes to regain his strength. When he first gets up in the morning, he seems more sure footed, but it only lasts a couple of minutes before he starts to falter. I took his glucose curve on Saturday 03/19, and he was consistenty in the 400's. A couple of months ago, his levels were ranging from 250 in the a.m. to mid 100's in early afternoon, and back up to 200 or so by the end of the curve, which is a normal pattern for him. I can't get him into the car to go to the vet; he's just too big. I have a call in to the vet to get her opinion, but I wanted to see what you guys thought since you've gone through it all. Thanks so much in advance. I'm just so sad, but I don't want Jack to get worse and worse in the coming days just to help myself so I'm feeling like I need to make a decision here. I can increase the insulin dosage, and i'm sure that's what the vet will tell me to do. Do you think that's all it will take, or is his body just getting too tired and old to deal with it all?

[jesse girl]

Re: High glucose levels and back leg weakness?

hi and welcome

we do see newly diagnosed diabetic dogs with leg weakness but not one that i have seen diabetic like your pup for 4 years

its possible the recent higher numbers maybe having an affect . we do know diabetes can have an affect on nerves in humans

with a larger dog who is a bit older and with higher sugar may affect the nerve signals down the back to the legs

it seems you identified its not do to pain and just weakness . if this is a trend with higher sugar solving why sugar is higher and reducing it maybe helpful

some have used vitamen b-12 but i have no knowledge of that and maybe someone with that knowledge can respond

[CraigM]

Re: High glucose levels and back leg weakness?

I think my 14+ year old pup was being bothered by arthritis, but could have been something else. She slowed way down and seemed like an OLD person (I know how OLD feels because I'm nearing 71).

3-4 weeks ago I started her on Synovi chews http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HNSBDX0/...eywords=Synovi

There has been a huge turnaround in her mobility. She actually tries to run at times. I feel so bad because I can't keep up with her and make her slow down because she is on a leash pulling me along

I can't be sure the Synovi was the cure, and understand your pup might have something completely different.

Craig

[JustinJ]

Re: High glucose levels and back leg weakness?

Hi Amy, our 9 year lab was just diagnosed this past Saturday 3/19. The weak hind legs were our main reason for bringing him to the vet, we didn't even think of diabetes to be honest...

Our vet said that diabetes affects nerves and obviously energy levels and the hind legs are a major group of muscles & joints so it was no surprise he was showing weakness there. She also stated he could have some arthritis flaring up due to the illness.

He's on day 3 of insulin therapy and to start his BG levels were over 500. We've been in the 400's since yesterday and he has shown some improvement in getting off the floor and walking but they are still quite weak.

You have far more experience than I managing this disease so the only thing I have to share so far is my story. I hope he improves when you get the levels back down.

--Justin

[Judi]

Re: High glucose levels and back leg weakness?

look at Antonia's response in this thread. Post #3 I think

http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthre...=Methyl&page=4

[amydunn19]

I think pain could be related to the high bg as well as inflammation. I would want to somehow get him to a vet to get a diagnosis. You may can get him on a maintenance medication for pain - Maggie is on tramadol daily and it has made her life better. Granted she is little and it seems the bigger dogs have a harder time. Getting old just stinks.

An anti-inflammatory might work better than tramadol but Maggie's stomach issues are bad so I am too scared to try something like it.